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With so many topics focusing on teamwork, tactics and whatnot, people generally focus on "what to shoot" and "what to shoot with", and overlook the subject of "how to shoot". By "how to shoot" I'm talking about the shooting stance. Shooting stance, along with sight picture and trigger control, are the basics and most important aspects of real steal shooting. However, they are generally disregarded in airsoft. This is to be expected. In airsoft you don’t need to worry about muzzle rise and recoil, so why would you need a good shooting stance? Sight picture and trigger control? Heck, when was the last time you held your breath and slowly squeezed off a round at the enemy? Most people I see on the field just point their barrels in whatever direction their teammates are pointed at and hose bb’s down range.

Like THIS guy

 

i6fktx.jpg

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Armour/Africa...ting/i6fktx.jpg

 

While this guy probably isn’t hitting anything due to the muzzle rise of the AK, this stance is very common and actually pretty effective in airsoft. However, seeing that airsoft is a game of “Milsim”, it is pretty funny to see a bunch of guys dressed in the gear of the most elite fighters today, and shoot their equally elite guns with the shooting stance resembling that of an ape.

 

Right here

http://youtu.be/F2ZxC0qVHio

 

If you dress like a Seal, might as well shoot like a Seal.

 

Note that I am not here to teach anyone about anything. The purpose of this post is to shed light on some proven practical techniques in a real combat environment, since airsoft is often used as a training tool for real steel shooters, by using the same techniques for airsoft will allow you to acquire some real combat skills during your airsofting weekends, and when you pick up a real firearm to defend you and your family against zombies (yes there is no doubt that a zombie apocalypse WILL happen), you’ll be able to use it efficiently.

 

Again I am not trying to teach anyone anything. My opinions on the matter are just, my opinions. This post is meant to provoke friendly discussion on the subject matter, which is what I believe this forum is intended for.

 

Bladed Magwell hold :

 

home.jpg

 

Body bladed towards target, stock usually fully extended, support hand gripping the magazine well.

 

Pros: VERY Natural and comfortable, can hold this way for extended periods of time.

 

Cons: Imagine writing w/ a pencil by holding onto the eraser (as far away from the tip as possible), not exactly easy is it? Same thing with rifles, have very little control over the rifle, make switching from target to target difficult.

 

Recommended to be used only with short barreled rifles like Short AKs(AKS74U, AK105, Beta speznaz), MK18s, and submachine guns)

 

The “Magpul” isosceles stance:

 

Chris-Costa-Leaves-Magpul-Dynamics-Forms-Costa-Ludus-Tactical-Training-Stickman-Photography-Pyramyd-Airsoft-Blog-Tom-Harris-Media-Tominator.jpg

 

IMG_43581.jpg

 

I called it “Magpul” stance because Costa is the only real steel shooter I’ve seen using this. However, it’s recently become very popular with airsofters, probably as a combined result of costa’s recent rise to fame and the Magpul dynamics videos. This is also the stance that I have the least knowledge about, so I’m hoping users of the stance will explain to me the advantageous of said stance. As far as I understand the shooter is completely squared towards the target. The stock is not on the shoulder, but on the center of the chest. As a result when you raise the gun the gun doesn’t “come to you”, but you have to stretch your neck downwards to aim through the sights. The stock is collapsed with nose touching the charging handle. The arm is completely extended with the wrist almost blocking the front sight. The rifle is complete supported by muscle as opposed to supported by the skeletonal system(magwell hold).

 

Pros: Definitely more control of the rifle, but this can also be achieved by the modified bladed stance (see below)

 

Cons: Tiring. Since it locks your arms, unable to modify it slightly when shooting around awkwardly shaped cover. Works when you have no gear on, but almost impossible to do when you’re in a “combat load”.

 

Recommended to be used with M4’s dressed up in Magpul furniture? Or maybe a Masada. Just use this stance with anything that has to do with magpul.

 

Modified Weaver Stance

 

Kyle Lamb (Former Delta)

 

Viking_0089.jpg

 

Larry Vickers

 

carbine-courses.jpg

 

Paul Howe (Delta, as “Sanderson” in movie Black Hawk Down)

 

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Jason Falla (Former Australian SAS)

 

Jason-Falla-Redback-One-Tactical.jpg

 

Kyle defoor (Former Navy Seal)

 

Daniel2BDefense2B014-vi.jpg

 

This is definitely my favorite stance, very popular amongst professional shooters, and is pretty much a compromise between the “magpul” stance and the bladed magwell. The support arm is extended, giving more control of the rifle, but not locked, making it more comfortable to hold. The stock is fully extended and rests well in the shoulder. The body is neither bladed nor square, but a compromise, much like a boxing stance. This is very stable and makes it easy to move around. Extended hold allows rapid engagement of multiple targets up close, and the bladed body makes it easy to twist your body to shoot around cover.

 

Close quarter rapid engagement:

 

 

Shooting from cover:

 

 

Recommended to be used with just about anything.

 

If you disagree with me, then great, tell me why I’m wrong and why you prefer to shoot a certain way.

 

If you do agree, that’s fine too.

Edited by Zeronica

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I shoot an m14 but from the standing position (where I usually am) and generally use the bladed magwell stance, however I am trying to transition to holding my left arm out farther so that I have better control of the long rifle and prevent over swing when transitioning from target to target. Another thing I like to check on myself is foot placement. I have one foot placed slightly in front of me and the other behind me and slightly to the right, this would absorb any recoil on a real gun, another great video on different shooting stances is

. This video covers all the different stances and how to properly hold the weapon. Trigger control is something that I believe is overlooked almost completely in airsoft. When you are bringing up your pistol to engage an enemy if you jerk the trigger even at 20ft you can miss by a foot or more. Trigger control should be a smooth action from front to back with no pressure applied to the sides of the trigger this is something that can be learned through practice. I completely agree with you that real steel shooting techniques sho uld be used by anyone who takes airsoft seriously.

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I shoot an m14 but from the standing position (where I usually am) and generally use the bladed magwell stance, however I am trying to transition to holding my left arm out farther so that I have better control of the long rifle and prevent over swing when transitioning from target to target. Another thing I like to check on myself is foot placement. I have one foot placed slightly in front of me and the other behind me and slightly to the right, this would absorb any recoil on a real gun, another great video on different shooting stances is
. This video covers all the different stances and how to properly hold the weapon. Trigger control is something that I believe is overlooked almost completely in airsoft. When you are bringing up your pistol to engage an enemy if you jerk the trigger even at 20ft you can miss by a foot or more. Trigger control should be a smooth action from front to back with no pressure applied to the sides of the trigger this is something that can be learned through practice. I completely agree with you that real steel shooting techniques sho uld be used by anyone who takes airsoft seriously.

 

Another instructional video from a professional shooter

 

He's got a longer rifle so it might help you more than the previous guys I mentioned who treat their carbines like "oversized pistols". This stance is more a balance of speed close quarters and accuracy long range.

 

Trigger control's definitely important. Once a guy got the jump on me with a pistol ten feet away and still missed cause he completely jerked the trigger. I still called it cause I had my AEG and didn't want to shoot him at such close range.

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The stance shown in the video is very close to the stance I use with the exception of he moves the gun to his head, I tend to lower my head into the gun. Very good tips, I will practice practice practice until I get it perfect. Hopefully next skirmish I will be unstoppable! :a-wink:

 

Drilling constantly will definitely improve performance though. Would like to see what some other people have to say on the subject though...

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The stance shown in the video is very close to the stance I use with the exception of he moves the gun to his head, I tend to lower my head into the gun. Very good tips, I will practice practice practice until I get it perfect. Hopefully next skirmish I will be unstoppable! :a-wink:

 

Drilling constantly will definitely improve performance though. Would like to see what some other people have to say on the subject though...

 

Nice review man.......

Now I use a G36e as a DMR, and this is a fairly long rifle, considering most G36's are the C or K model in airsoft.

I used the bladed magwell stance, but when prone, I'm able to use the weaver stance.

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I'm a real steel shooter and I understand proper stance and recoil control, but airsoft's a pretty damn different thing. In both venues I pick a stance that's comfortable to me, so I tend to naturally fall into live shooting stances with airsoft just because it's habit; I personally mimic Larry Vickers and Paul Howe the most. But not having to worry about recoil and often not worrying about the weight of the gun means that I have much more leeway in how I hold and aim. The use of hi-caps and bright white BBs as a tracer stream means I also have to worry less about pinpoint accuracy at long range.

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I think it's interesting that while this topic has over 1200 views, it only had 6 posts...

The information was good and I appreciate it! I'll try out the magpul stance.

 

Something I'd like to bring up is that a good stance and positioning will indeed let you excell in hitting targets. A solid foundation is the best way to do anything. The next thing I'd bring up is that keeping a good stance is a LOT harder to do when you get any sort of fire coming your way. Ego's tend to rise when this type of thing is brought up.. soooo read what I've already said before raging at me...

I have a great stance. This is fact. I've gone through training~ paramilitary, police, and civilian. From them I've gathered a pretty good wealth of information and experience. I'll be honest and say that my first... 5 shots are done with a good stance. The rest are a quick point-shoot, and yes I've sprayed sideways while running my :censored2: through areas, I've done the same shooting forwards, and backwards. An aimed shot will almost always hit your target. If I go slow enough to put a great shot downrange, I'm probably getting lit up. This isn't to say that I won't slice corners in buildings and clear tactically while communicating with teammates. But really... why isn't it good "tactics" to shoot around corners when you KNOW there is an enemy right there? I've gotten a fair share of yelling from people about blind-firing. So I play their game and present a target to my enemies.

 

What I'm trying to say is this- Stance is one of the most important things when placing good, accurate, thought-out shots down range. Shooting from cover is great. But I'm not beyond putting a couple rounds towards the area of someone to give myself some breathing room to go back into a good firing position.

 

Again, thank you for the original post, I'll be sure to try it out.

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afrikan shooting over cover is excellent for cqb. Poke top of head and gun up over cover and fire = alive, raise torso over and shoulder gun = hit. Best way imo is right hand on trigger/grip and left hand on rear of stock. This is excellent with skeleton stocks as you have a handle for the left hand.

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The full arm extended shooting stance works well for paper targets.

 

But, in real life, not so well...

 

Try clearing a building with your arm hanging out like that room after room, floor after floor.

 

One your going to get tired because your not centering on your core.

Two...your more likely to get disabled by your opponent versus a more traditional keep your hands close to your body shooting style.

-Gun starts moving across the door way, OPFOR sees barrel and a hand! Bang! let's see how effective you are with one less hand.

Three body rotation - takes more effort rotating at the hip when your arm is out.

 

So, again, I am not saying it's a bad style. It's just not as tactically feasible to use that style in real life versus say a stationary paper target that doesn't shoot back.

 

 

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I wouldn't call the C clamp/isosceles grip a stance - more of a grip. When it comes to my definition of a "stance", they are all BS (for lack of a better term) and so I refer you to THIS video by a real steel gun fighting instructor.

 

Somethings that are not BS:

 

-Keep your elbows close to your body as it gives you a smaller profile (and therefore you become a smaller target)

-When you are danger close do not drop your firearm/replica to anything below a low ready

 

 

Anything beyond that is personal preference and what works for you. I wouldn't encourage anyone to go around using a stance that makes them uncomfortable.

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Those who think the "Magpul" stance works in combat are WEIRDOS it's uncomfortable as hell.

 

I honestly either shoot the "Bladed Magwell" or, at times, the "Modified Weaver Stance" or whatever the hell you call holding it by the bottom of the rail.

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My problem with Isosceles shooting is that it's intended to adapt a large gun for shooting in areas or situations where having a large gun is a serious liability, for example, indoors. Imagine a special version of center-axis relock shooting designed specifically for revolvers with a 12" barrel.

 

That, and my primary weapon is a replica of the HALO 3 battle rifle, and my fingers would need to be 14" long to go thumb over bore. :D

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While shooting stance is an important step to work on for an advanced player, for John Doe I would focus more on moving constantly and sight picture. Read my sig, and look up the guy who said it. He will tell you the same thing. Focusing on shooting stance instead of just moving, you will get shot more often. sight picture and weapon manipulation (which includes trigger pull) are the most important, then shooting stance

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I think it depends on the type of player, position / role, expected engagement range, and play.

 

I personally do not care as much about 'sight picture' as I do about stance and profile, since my emphasis is just on speed and not getting hit. But someone who plays slower and more conservative, farther back from the front than me might emphasize accuracy more, so sight picture is more important.

 

Whatever works for you, your position, your team, etc. Everyone will have different priorities just depending on what they are trying to do or accomplish.

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By sight picture, do you mean aiming? Because you kind of need to do that.

 

I tried the "rushing without aiming" thing at a speedball course... I hit a guy after emptying a quarter of the mag into him.

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By sight picture, do you mean aiming? Because you kind of need to do that.

 

I tried the "rushing without aiming" thing at a speedball course... I hit a guy after emptying a quarter of the mag into him.

Sight picture - Basically this is just being able to line up the sights and use them effectively. Every gun and every set of sights is different, first you need to place them properly or optimally, then spend some time zeroing the sights under controlled conditions. And then you need to practice using the sights in a variety of different positions and conditions so you can line them up consistently, quickly, and under pressure. The most common problem is aiming too low or too high. A lot of people do fine at a target range, but their technique breaks down under pressure.

 

Firing without aiming is tricky, it's a specific tactic, not for everyone or even most of the time. What you need to do is learn the different types of fire, sometimes the objective of fire isn't to score a hit, or better stated, some types of fire you can't reasonably expect to score a hit with. But that doesn't mean you should forgo these types, especially when playing as part of a team.

Edited by Shutaro

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None of the above stances are more correct than the other. It is all about what feels comfortable to you and helps you get lead on target rapidly and accurately. Of course some stances are better for certain situations than others(CQB or long range shots etc..). For me personally I use the "magpul isosceles stance, it just feels right for me in MOST situations. Also when I shoot real steel that stance helps me control the recoil better.

 

Just my .02

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I do understand sight picture, I was just confused by how you meant it.

 

You are correct that people lose proper sighting technique when they start playing, I've done it before. My brother even did it while hunting(good ol' buck fever taking its course).

 

Thanks for the whole rush-fire or whatever you want to call it seminar, that makes sense now. :P

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None of the above stances are more correct than the other. It is all about what feels comfortable to you and helps you get lead on target rapidly and accurately. Of course some stances are better for certain situations than others(CQB or long range shots etc..). For me personally I use the "magpul isosceles stance, it just feels right for me in MOST situations. Also when I shoot real steel that stance helps me control the recoil better.

An example of a bad stance would be "chest one" from the popular youtube video:

It's good for laughs, but not much else. Especially that little side-to-side flourish he does after the shots.

 

CQB generally has the largest variance of stances due to the different types of cover/openings and often the movement used.

Consistency can be nice, but predictability can also get you shot. I've always found it best to know three of four different ways to address the same situation; even though some many not be optimal, it will at least keep your adversaries guessing how you are going to appear the next time.

 

One other thing, for airsoft specifically, the protective equipment you use may help to determine your stance (or vice versa).

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An example of a bad stance would be "chest one" from the popular youtube video:

It's good for laughs, but not much else. Especially that little side-to-side flourish he does after the shots.

 

CQB generally has the largest variance of stances due to the different types of cover/openings and often the movement used.

Consistency can be nice, but predictability can also get you shot. I've always found it best to know three of four different ways to address the same situation; even though some many not be optimal, it will at least keep your adversaries guessing how you are going to appear the next time.

 

One other thing, for airsoft specifically, the protective equipment you use may help to determine your stance (or vice versa).

 

Yes I completely agree with you.. although I was speaking of the pictured stances not the stances in the video.. variation is good

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