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Anthony Iaccarino

Seriously Considering a Systema...

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Hello everyone, I am seriously considering buying a Systema M4A1 PTW from the following link: http://www.amazon.com/Systema-Training-Wea...ds=systema+m4a1

 

First off, I spoke to the provider of this gun and they said that it is shipped directly from AirSplat, so don't let Amazon fool you. Money is not an issue for this gun, as I've been saving up for quite awhile.

 

So now onto my questions... You don't have to answer all of the questions, just whichever you have answers to. ALL HELP IS APPRECIATED!

 

-Is the gun worth the money?

 

-So far, almost everone I've spoken to has told me that they run with very little to no issues what-so-ever, and you never see Systema's going in for repair. This is what I've been told until yesterday. I spoke to a dealer, and a current owner of a Systema and apparently this isn't the fact at all. He says that they are nothing but problems and are nowhere near worth the money you are looking to spend. Then again, he shipped his gun over to the UK to get Tackleberry mods installed which I've heard causes lots of problems. I am not looking to upgrade the preformance of the gun, I believe that a stock Systema will preform fine for me. I've even heard of stories where they come out of the box, take two shots, and break... So leading to my question, if I preform constant maintenance and keep from upgrading, am I going to see issues?

 

-How does the systema run with a regular 9.6v 1600mah battery? What is the rate of fire with the stock blue m110 cylinder?

 

-I'm looking to use the gun on a pretty common basis, is it a good gun to use around once a week? I'll usually only be using it indoors with a low grade cylinder.

 

-What gram bb should I use, and what is the accuracy and maximum range on the systema with the m90m blue indoor cylinder and the m130 gold cylinder?

 

Thanks alot, if I have any more questions I will edit them in. You don't have to answer all of the questions, just whichever you have answers to. ALL HELP IS APPRECIATED!

 

Anthony

Edited by Anthony Iaccarino

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Are you using the gun for training or skirmishing?

 

Mostly skirmishing. I know people say it isn't worth the money for skirmishing, but I'm looking to have THE top of the line airsoft gun. I'll also use the gun for training purposes, but I'll probably be using the gun around once a week for games, if not, once every other week.

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-Is the gun worth the money?

Simply, no, it's not.

-So far, almost everone I've spoken to has told me that they run with very little to no issues what-so-ever, and you never see Systema's going in for repair. This is what I've been told until yesterday. I spoke to a dealer, and a current owner of a Systema and apparently this isn't the fact at all. He says that they are nothing but problems and are nowhere near worth the money you are looking to spend. Then again, he shipped his gun over to the UK to get Tackleberry mods installed which I've heard causes lots of problems. I am not looking to upgrade the preformance of the gun, I believe that a stock Systema will preform fine for me. I've even heard of stories where they come out of the box, take two shots, and break... So leading to my question, if I preform constant maintenance and keep from upgrading, am I going to see issues?

I do not know of anyone who has owned a Systema PTW that has not had to replace or fix something because of failure in their bone stock PTWs. The failure rate of the guns are much too high to warrant the outrageous price tag.

-How does the systema run with a regular 9.6v 1600mah battery? What is the rate of fire with the stock blue m110 cylinder?

I cannot answer this question. I have not owned a PTW myself, and the friends that have only use lipo batteries.

-I'm looking to use the gun on a pretty common basis, is it a good gun to use around once a week? I'll usually only be using it indoors with a low grade cylinder.

It's fine, but again, you are doing the same thing that most people do their whole airsoft career for $200.

-What gram bb should I use, and what is the accuracy and maximum range on the systema with the m90m blue indoor cylinder and the m130 gold cylinder?

You should try using .3s. The range with the M90 may be 100-150ft, the M130, 100-200ft. The hop up in the gun is very poor, so your range will suffer. And because it's a proprietary design, there isn't much you can do to fix the issue.

 

All in all, Systema PTWs are not worth the money. Their gear set and cylinders are very strong, and should last forever given proper maintenance. I've never heard of a gear set failure. But, the motors burn out often, the electronics are weak, and fail. I've already spoken about the poor hop up. The receivers are not strong, and are prone to cracking, especially around the front pin.

 

Replacing the cylinders, being able to quickly and easily switch the fps is a nice feature, but it's not nice enough to over power the rest of the gun's flaws.

 

With the budget that you have, you can easily buy a nice AEG, and send it to an airsoft tech to set it exactly how you want it. It will be considerably cheaper than a Systema PTW, and will be more reliable.

 

On a final note. If you have your heart set on a PTW. Fight Club Customs has basically redesigned the PTW system, and produces reliable aftermarket upgrades, and complete guns. It's considerably more expensive, but the gun would be more reliable, as FCC has fixed all the afore mentioned issues. However, they do run twice as much as a Systema PTW.

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Mostly skirmishing. I know people say it isn't worth the money for skirmishing, but I'm looking to have THE top of the line airsoft gun. I'll also use the gun for training purposes, but I'll probably be using the gun around once a week for games, if not, once every other week.

If you're looking for the top of the line, look into Polarstars, performance wise they are top of the line. An AEG with a Polarstar conversion will do loops around a PTW at half the cost. The downside is that you're dependant on a HPA filling station or HPA compressor. You can also do what Star_folder suggests, and buy a nice base gun and have a tech upgrade it for you. You can pay a tech to build you an AEG with extreme performance, combined with good reliability, and it will still be alot cheaper than buying a PTW.

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A company called G&D just started making a PTW clone...FYI...

I wouldn't hold my breath for a G&D just yet. The one we received had a dysfunctional sun gear, and then upon purchasing a replacement gear, the gearbox is off spec from the Systema box, and the replacement sun gear is ever so slightly too large for the gearbox. Even so, $300 and some upgrades are still a heck of a lot cheaper than a Systema PTW.

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Guest alberty
I saw a video of one of those PTW clones, worst trigger response ever...

 

I briefly saw a video of a G&D one and it sounded real bad. In person, I've seen some Celsius CTWs perform pretty well, but sound squeaky as compared to a PTW.

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Systemas are designed to run on 9.6v batteries and the control unit inside regulates the rof and trigger response to make it as real as possible, which is why their trigger response is great but the overall rof isn't insane. They come stock with a steel 6.01 tbb and are known to have great accuracy, but a lot of people buy modified hop ups to get even better range and accuracy. Internally/mechanically, the only thing wrong with them is their motor. As good as it is, they are prone to failure and are VERY expensive to replace. Other than that, it's a training weapon so the externals are realism to the max.

 

I'd suggest looking into a Celsius. They are half the price and a real contender to the Systemas. They tend to share similar problems, but Celsius seems to have better quality control. The Celsius also comes with a ported 6.00 tbb, which has potential of being far more accurate than the Systema if the right bbs are used. Unlike Systema, Celsius ctws are designed to run on 11.1v lipo, or equivalent, batteries. I put a fully charged intellect 9.6v 1600mah battery into a Celsius and the rifle wouldn't even complete a single cycle. The control unit is designed to cut off power to the motor when the battery falls below a certain voltage. Even though the 9.6v was fully charged, it still wasn't enough for the rifle. It was interesting because when the battery was connected and the receivers were closed (normal firing), the motor would spin a little, then stop. When the receivers were open and the gears weren't pulling back a load, they completed cycles perfectly. When the motor met resistance, power was cut off. This tells me that the rifle not only monitors battery voltage, but current draw as well. That's something normal mosfets won't do.

 

As far as I know, all aftermarket parts are interchangeable between the Systema and Celsius, but I'm not 100% sure.

 

My friend bought a boneyard Celsius from evike a couple weeks ago. It looks to be made up of various new and used parts, mostly new though. I don't know how many rounds the gears and motor have seen, if any, but they look very promising. The overall quality of it is really nice, though. The weight and feel of the rifle is just like the real steel counterpart. I'm not saying Systema, or Celsius, is the way to go, but I figured I'd give a little input and answer some of your questions.

 

Also, something like a Systema shouldn't be bought from airsplat. Check out these guys: http://hotspotairsoft.com/catalog/index.ph...6ccc1cde5f21711

Whereas most other sites only sell the rifles, hotspot is authorized to do repairs and sell all sorts of parts, all of which are the newest possible versions. From what I've read, hotspot airsoft is the only place (in the US) where you should buy a training weapon or its parts and accessories. They are very reputable.

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Systemas are designed to run on 9.6v batteries and the control unit inside regulates the rof and trigger response to make it as real as possible, which is why their trigger response is great but the overall rof isn't insane. They come stock with a steel 6.01 tbb and are known to have great accuracy, but a lot of people buy modified hop ups to get even better range and accuracy. Internally/mechanically, the only thing wrong with them is their motor. As good as it is, they are prone to failure and are VERY expensive to replace. Other than that, it's a training weapon so the externals are realism to the max.

 

I'd suggest looking into a Celsius. They are half the price and a real contender to the Systemas. They tend to share similar problems, but Celsius seems to have better quality control. The Celsius also comes with a ported 6.00 tbb, which has potential of being far more accurate than the Systema if the right bbs are used. Unlike Systema, Celsius ctws are designed to run on 11.1v lipo, or equivalent, batteries. I put a fully charged intellect 9.6v 1600mah battery into a Celsius and the rifle wouldn't even complete a single cycle. The control unit is designed to cut off power to the motor when the battery falls below a certain voltage. Even though the 9.6v was fully charged, it still wasn't enough for the rifle. It was interesting because when the battery was connected and the receivers were closed (normal firing), the motor would spin a little, then stop. When the receivers were open and the gears weren't pulling back a load, they completed cycles perfectly. When the motor met resistance, power was cut off. This tells me that the rifle not only monitors battery voltage, but current draw as well. That's something normal mosfets won't do.

 

As far as I know, all aftermarket parts are interchangeable between the Systema and Celsius, but I'm not 100% sure.

 

My friend bought a boneyard Celsius from evike a couple weeks ago. It looks to be made up of various new and used parts, mostly new though. I don't know how many rounds the gears and motor have seen, if any, but they look very promising. The overall quality of it is really nice, though. The weight and feel of the rifle is just like the real steel counterpart. I'm not saying Systema, or Celsius, is the way to go, but I figured I'd give a little input and answer some of your questions.

 

Also, something like a Systema shouldn't be bought from airsplat. Check out these guys: http://hotspotairsoft.com/catalog/index.ph...6ccc1cde5f21711

Whereas most other sites only sell the rifles, hotspot is authorized to do repairs and sell all sorts of parts, all of which are the newest possible versions. From what I've read, hotspot airsoft is the only place (in the US) where you should buy a training weapon or its parts and accessories. They are very reputable.

 

I was actually seriously looking into a Celcius, but in actuality, the guy who told me to get the Systema and not the Celcius was a guy named Claudio who is the head tech at HotSpot Airsoft. He said if you are going to look into buying a Celcius to not even bother if you can afford the Systema. As for AirSplat, I don't see the difference between them and HotSpot. The gun itself is coming new from the warehouse with a 15 day money back guarantee and a 60 day repair warranty.

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As mentioned in a post above me, go with a TM Recoil Shock. They cost less and are overall a much more reliable/better performing platform. Systemas are just icky proprietary guns for people who are overcompensating (that's a joke, Systema users don't cry). The Recoil Shock line offers all of the cute little features like the bolt catch/lock, recoil, etc. and is not only cheaper but vastly nicer in terms of reliability. Not to mention, most of the internals are still compatible with standard TM upgrades so tuning the gun to your liking of FPS, RPS, range, etc. isn't overly complicated or expensive like a Systema.

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First, I'd highly recommend heading over to the Systema PTW forums and checking out the threads there. They have loads of information as well as some used PTWs that are great deals.

 

Are they worth the money? I'd say no. And the only reason I say no is because I personally believe that Systema overprices their guns a lot. Hopefully the influx of clones will bring costs down but until then, the price tag isn't warranted. You can get a lot of really nice things for 1500+ that wont fail on you. Hell you can get really nice AEGs for 800.

 

HOWEVER, if you don't want to wait and have the money to drop, then by all means get one. IMHO Systemas, when they're great, they're amazing. Polarstar may offer better performance but hpa could be an issue. The general build and feel of the rifle is superb and the trigger response is a dream. The hop up, with proper tuning and with .28 bbs was able to get about 170-180 feet of effective range and while the hop up is generally agreed as a bad design, there are aftermarket hop up units that increase range as well such as the MDD Hop Up unit or Tackleberry's Super Hop system.

 

In terms of maintence, if you take regular care of your AEGs, then you'll do the same to the PTW. Yes there are problems with motors. That is a definite weak point of the line. However, most RC shops will be able to rewind your motor. You could also get it sent to Tackleberry. Whoever told you Tac has issues is 99.8% wrong. Tac does fantastic work and makes the Systema above and beyond. However, people have experienced failures regardless and I personally believe thats an issue in hardware not Tac. A Tackleberry complete Systema as he sells them, while they are expensive, are fantastic rifles and what Systema should have been. Don't get me wrong, Systemas are very nice, its just they learned about quality control from an asian knock off sweatshop. Some will be great and some will be fantastic and some will be a giant money pit. Thats why I suggest either used ones (weeds out problems as people get their guns teched) or Tackleberry ones out of the box.

 

Don't flame me for being the devils advocate. If there was a local HPA store and if I was more familiar with HPA or systems such as that, I'd gladly get a P*. But I don't have any of those. I'm stretched for time for airsoft anyways, I don't want to spend time grabbing HPA.

 

Oh and idea that there isn't a single case where PTWs have lasted as long is just absurd. I personally know teammates with PTWs running on5 years with no problems. Its just that PTWs with problems are just well documented. If you look up Hamza MSK on youtube, he's a french airsoft player running the PTW for a while stock and he still kicks :censored2: with it as well as many others.

 

Overall its the eye of the beholder, and it sounds like you have your eye on the PTW. Its great that you have the money for it, most people don't or arent willing But always be careful with the QC.

 

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Overall, I'd say not worth it. I've seen them and used one for a few games, and while they feel pretty nice, my used Thompson with $150 in upgrades performs a thousand times better. P* engines perform better than a Systema, a million times better and more realiably, for half the price, assuming air isn't a huge issue (which it really shouldn't be). If you have that much, just buy an AEG and upgrade it to the max or buy a P* engine.

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Adog112, digged your thompson btw, quite creative.

 

Anthony, good thing though is that PTWs have pretty good resale value to them and there always seems to be buyers ready on the for sale ads on PTW forums where at maximum it takes about a month to sell but they usuallly akways do. So that could be an option if you don't like it and want to switch to the P* platform.

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