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1911fan

Do you support gun control?

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Now on to prices again, I was going to make a cool little tacticool .22, but I just saw they doubled and even tripled the prices of EVERYTHING, not just semi auto AR style firearms. People are overreacting more than before and think that the government will take all the guns away. These people need to realize they can't take every single firearm down the to last Kentucky Long Rifle, if they take anything from people.

 

Society annoys me.

 

It's annoying, but tacticool .22s would have been included in the AWB, and that's why there was a run on them and their parts. It took me 2 months to receive some 25 round mags for one of my .22 rifles. And that's solely because a mag ban would apply to .22s, just like the AWB would. Thankfully, at least the AWB looks somewhat dead at this point. I've had some AR15 mags on backorder for 4 months now, along with an AR15 lower. Crazy stuff.

 

But yeah, society is annoying.

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I went to a gun show in January and had to control my rage when I saw SKS's that would normally be priced at $320 now at double the price. And ammo's next to impossible to get at my work unless you're just getting .410 and 12gauge.

 

At this moment the only semi-autos I've seen in the more sane price-ranges are non-tacticool .22's like Plinksters and AR-7's.

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Well, Savage MK 2 rifles are still like $500 for a nice heavy barrel version :a-laugh:

 

But I do think it's annoying how the only thing you can get is shotgun shells. You can't even get reloading products, people are hoarding ammo like crazy.

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I honestly feel that airsoft is a good replacement for a real gun. Most of the people buying AR15's are doing it for fantasy reasons.

 

Absolutely not. Try stopping a home invasion with your JG, and get back to me. Oh, and if there's a group in a truck that are attempting to kill you and your entire family: go for the Hi-cap.

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I have only owned 4 guns in my life. ALL of which are airsoft guns. I understand the concern for why people want to "stock up" on guns but honestly I get tired of hearing about the reasons and the "what ifs". With all of this said, yes I still support gun control.

 

I own 5 guns. 2 are airsoft guns. But just for hunting, target, the stuff.

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I have only owned 4 guns in my life. ALL of which are airsoft guns. I understand the concern for why people want to "stock up" on guns but honestly I get tired of hearing about the reasons and the "what ifs". With all of this said, yes I still support gun control.

 

I hate to break it to you, but you don't own any guns. The fact that you think your airsoft "guns" are the same thing as real guns is vaguely disturbing to me.

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I hate to break it to you, but you don't own any guns. The fact that you think your airsoft "guns" are the same thing as real guns is vaguely disturbing to me.

 

I hate to break it to you but Airsoft "Guns" should be handled and treated just as you would a real gun. The fact you don't think they should be grouped together is disturbing to me. Are you the kind of kid that waves his gun around in the staging area with a loaded mag, finger on the trigger, and no barrel blocker? Or are you the kid that still plays at home with no goggles on in the backyard?

 

Can't tell you how many times I've been at a game seeing some 14 year old with no safety training or common sense waving his gun around with 20 people less than 10ft away. The last time I saw this I slapped the kids gun right outa his hand. There are other people like me out there that have little tolerance for 14 year old codsofters with no common sense.

Edited by Blankflank

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I have only owned 4 guns in my life. ALL of which are airsoft guns. I understand the concern for why people want to "stock up" on guns but honestly I get tired of hearing about the reasons and the "what ifs". With all of this said, yes I still support gun control.

 

You live in a giant mythical bubble.

 

Thugs and criminals have access to cars. They will drive to you so it matters not how far away you are from bad places and people. That is a growing problem across my region. You are your own first responder. Even if a SWAT team could materialize in your home in 20 seconds you might be a dead body for 15 seconds. Doesn't happen often but folks who understand how vulnerable they are, are the ones who arm and train up.

 

Then there are disaster situations like storms, social uprising, and earthquakes. You probably don't understand the severity of Katrina and the LA riots where there was no order and people successfully defended themselves from violence with guns. It pays to be prepared. Doesn't mean you want it to happen.

 

 

For those of you that own guns and train/practice with them, I highly recommend that you get trauma kits to treat wounds and learn how to use the equipment.

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It pays to be prepared.

 

To a certain extent you're right. You can't prepare for everything nor should you try to. Owning a handgun or a shotgun and knowing how to use it is more than enough to prepare yourself for a home invasion. You don't need to "stock" ammo for a full on army of home invaders. Nor do you need more than one mag or one box of ammo.

 

Sure I could prepare for a Nuclear disaster, but I don't. I could prepare for a zombie invasion, but I don't, I could prepare for every horrid "what if" that could happen, but I don't. What I do prepare for is my daughter going to college, vacation, and similar things that WILL come up in life. Sure, prepare for the unexpected like a housefire, buy a fire extinguisher. Prepare for someone to get hurt, have a first aid kid handy. Prepare for a home invasion, buy a handgun. But again you don't need 100 fire extinguishers for a house fire, you don't need 100 first aid kids for a cut, and you don't need 10 guns for a home invader.

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I hate to break it to you but Airsoft "Guns" should be handled and treated just as you would a real gun. The fact you don't think they should be grouped together is disturbing to me. Are you the kind of kid that waves his gun around in the staging area with a loaded mag, finger on the trigger, and no barrel blocker? Or are you the kid that still plays at home with no goggles on in the backyard?

 

Can't tell you how many times I've been at a game seeing some 14 year old with no safety training or common sense waving his gun around with 20 people less than 10ft away. The last time I saw this I slapped the kids gun right outa his hand. There are other people like me out there that have little tolerance for 14 year old codsofters with no common sense.

 

You can handle and treat your airsoft guns however you feel it is appropriate, but the fact is that they are not real guns. Someone saying that they own four guns but they support gun control, while admitting that the "guns" the own are actually airsoft suggests to me that they don't understand the difference between a real gun and a replica gun. If you can't see how that thought is disturbing, then you and I have no frame of reference to have a reasonable discussion on the issue.

 

Here's a simple brain exercise for you: when was the last time you took a real, loaded gun, pointed it at another person, and pulled the trigger? :rolleyes:

Edited by chibajoe

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You can handle and treat your airsoft guns however you feel it is appropriate, but the fact is that they are not real guns. Someone saying that they own four guns but they support gun control, while admitting that the "guns" the own are actually airsoft suggests to me that they don't understand the difference between a real gun and a replica gun. If you can't see how that thought is disturbing, then you and I have no frame of reference to have a reasonable discussion on the issue.

 

Here's a simple brain exercise for you: when was the last time you took a real, loaded gun, pointed it at another person, and pulled the trigger?

 

Not once I did I say they are real guns nor did I say there is no difference. The fact of the matter is you should handle anything that fires a projectile at high speeds with the same care you do with a real gun. Reguardless of if you point it at someone. If you can't see how not being safe with airsoft guns has the potential to do permanet damage to someone then I don't think you should be handling anything, even a nerf gun without taking some proper safety courses.

 

Maybe it's not that he doesn't understand the differences but that he knows that both should be handled with the same care and safety.

 

Here's a simple brain exercise for you: When was the last time you pointed anything that fires a projectile at a person unsafely?

 

If you honestly think you have to pull the trigger for it to be considered unsafe to point a gun at a person you seriously need to be put in a straightjacket. Why do you think people at sporting goods sorts point the guns in the air when handling them. They are unloaded and most of the time locked, yet they don't point them at anyone for pure safety.

Edited by Blankflank

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To a certain extent you're right. You can't prepare for everything nor should you try to. Owning a handgun or a shotgun and knowing how to use it is more than enough to prepare yourself for a home invasion. You don't need to "stock" ammo for a full on army of home invaders. Nor do you need more than one mag or one box of ammo.

 

Sure I could prepare for a Nuclear disaster, but I don't. I could prepare for a zombie invasion, but I don't, I could prepare for every horrid "what if" that could happen, but I don't. What I do prepare for is my daughter going to college, vacation, and similar things that WILL come up in life. Sure, prepare for the unexpected like a housefire, buy a fire extinguisher. Prepare for someone to get hurt, have a first aid kid handy. Prepare for a home invasion, buy a handgun. But again you don't need 100 fire extinguishers for a house fire, you don't need 100 first aid kids for a cut, and you don't need 10 guns for a home invader.

 

You make reasonable points, but you use the word "need" a lot, and that can be a problem. You're defining "need" within your own domain and applying that definition to others, but the problem is that everyone's "needs" are different. Strictly speaking, nobody needs a car. Nobody needs internet. Nobody needs a TV. Nobody needs anything other than food and water, the bare essentials to survive.

 

If we made things illegal because we don't need them, then it'd be easy to outlaw airsoft. It'd be easy to outlaw purple shoes. We could outlaw speakers. But the purpose of these things is entertainment. You're entertained by airsoft just as many are entertained by shooting real rifles. Plenty of people like motorcycles, and nobody needs those- but nobody should have to defend their hobby. Nobody should justify why they "need" something in order for it to be legal. Rather, a justification should be made as to why something ought to be illegal. As it turns out, those justifications can be very difficult to make.

 

I hate to break it to you but Airsoft "Guns" should be handled and treated just as you would a real gun. The fact you don't think they should be grouped together is disturbing to me. Are you the kind of kid that waves his gun around in the staging area with a loaded mag, finger on the trigger, and no barrel blocker? Or are you the kid that still plays at home with no goggles on in the backyard?

 

Can't tell you how many times I've been at a game seeing some 14 year old with no safety training or common sense waving his gun around with 20 people less than 10ft away. The last time I saw this I slapped the kids gun right outa his hand. There are other people like me out there that have little tolerance for 14 year old codsofters with no common sense.

 

As much as it makes sense to treat airsoft guns as firearms for safety reasons, they simply are not the same. There are generally only safety concerns in areas where people don't have eye protection, or at close ranges where it would hurt more than normal. The lethality of an airsoft gun is virtually nonexistant, which is very different from a real firearm.

 

Edit: I see you responded while I was typing my post.

 

Not once I did I say they are real guns nor did I say there is no difference. The fact of the matter is you should handle anything that fires a projectile at high speeds with the same care you do with a real gun. Reguardless of if you point it at someone. If you can't see how not being safe with airsoft guns has the potential to do permanet damage to someone then I don't think you should be handling anything, even a nerf gun without taking some proper safety courses.

 

Maybe it's not that he doesn't understand the differences but that he knows that both should be handled with the same care and safety.

 

The fact is that they are not treated with the same care and safety. If they were, then the game of airsoft would not exist. They have very different levels of required safety.

Edited by Python890

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Not once I did I say they are real guns nor did I say there is no difference. The fact of the matter is you should handle anything that fires a projectile at high speeds with the same care you do with a real gun. Reguardless of if you point it at someone. If you can't see how not being safe with airsoft guns has the potential to do permanet damage to someone then I don't think you should be handling anything, even a nerf gun without taking some proper safety courses.

 

Maybe it's not that he doesn't understand the differences but that he knows that both should be handled with the same care and safety.

 

Here's a simple brain exercise for you: When was the last time you pointed anything that fires a projectile at a person unsafely?

 

If you honestly think you have to pull the trigger for it to be considered unsafe to point a gun at a person you seriously need to be put in a straightjacket. Why do you think people at sporting goods sorts point the guns in the air when handling them. They are unloaded and most of the time locked, yet they don't point them at anyone for pure safety.

 

 

Do you realize that the very act of shooting someone with an airsoft gun is inherently unsafe? There are things that you can do to mitigate the risks, but that does not change the nature of the act. So, to answer your question, the last time I pointed something that fires a projectile at a person unsafely was the last time I played airsoft. Fortunately, since he and I (and everyone else at the airsoft field that we played at) took precautions to minimize the associated risks, nobody was seriously injured when I pulled the trigger and shot him.

 

The fact of the matter is that airsoft guns and real guns should NOT handled with the same care and safety. They should be handled with similar care and safety, but if you treated airsoft guns like real guns, the game would be pretty boring, and if you treated real guns like airsoft guns, there would be a whole bunch of injured and dead people.

 

ETA: see Python's post, he said it way better that I did.

Edited by chibajoe

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To a certain extent you're right. You can't prepare for everything nor should you try to. Owning a handgun or a shotgun and knowing how to use it is more than enough to prepare yourself for a home invasion. You don't need to "stock" ammo for a full on army of home invaders. Nor do you need more than one mag or one box of ammo.

 

Sure I could prepare for a Nuclear disaster, but I don't. I could prepare for a zombie invasion, but I don't, I could prepare for every horrid "what if" that could happen, but I don't. What I do prepare for is my daughter going to college, vacation, and similar things that WILL come up in life. Sure, prepare for the unexpected like a housefire, buy a fire extinguisher. Prepare for someone to get hurt, have a first aid kid handy. Prepare for a home invasion, buy a handgun. But again you don't need 100 fire extinguishers for a house fire, you don't need 100 first aid kids for a cut, and you don't need 10 guns for a home invader.

 

stocking weapons, ammo, food, supplies, etc is not for ONE person. It is to equip one's family, friends, etc. Sure there are people out there with no friends and family who have 10 guns and thousands of rounds of ammo but I strongly suspect that is not the norm. I suspect most people who own guns have family and friends and would love to take them to the range and courses to train up. Just in case. Think LA riots.

 

Prepping for disaster, be it home invasion or red dawn or CBRN, does not mean you do not have time to do other things in your life. There are plenty of people who do a ton of things well and still have time for a good night's sleep. It depends on you and your attitude.

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Bad Blankflank. I'm 14, and I handle guns(both airsoft and firearms) better than a good amount of people. So you should make it something like a 12 yr old girl with Crosman .12s and a Dboys M4. :a-laugh:

Edited by Coyote98

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It is not gun control that these idiots want. It's "people control". The 2nd amendment was not made for reasons of safety, or hunting. It was made to ensure that the government never overstepped it's bounds. The first thing to go before a tyrannical government goes into full effect are weapons that people have; ie the Irish were banned from having swords so that they could NOT fight against their English lords, Hitler banned guns from the general public in order to have his third reich. Of course, the sheep will follow whatever the media scares them into believing, so I hope that you lawful gun owners are wary and have made plans to somehow make your firearms disappear when the government comes for them.

 

Remember, the 2nd amendment is a "RIGHT" not a "NEED".

Edited by egalsim

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I'm so glad I don't play with the people in this post. If you think for a second you can't lose an eye, which incase they don't teach this in school kids, it's not something that grows back, you are without a doubt a moron who should NOT be playing or handling anything that fires a projectile. If you do not treat your airsoft guns with the same safety and care of a real gun you should NOT be in this sport.

 

That's the sad truth of things. I'm not going to multiquote and respond to each post here which all said the same thing. But I honestly think the three of you need to use some common sense before posting next time. You know excatly what I mean and saying otherwise makes you look like a child who can't and shouldn't ever handle a gun.

 

Sadly the term you are looking for is FIREARM, not gun. Guns can be anything that fires a projectile. Like a nailgun, or a nerfgun, or a bubblegun. Or just something that has the same shape as one. A firearm would be the term to seperate "guns" from "firearms" but you wouldn't know that unless you took a safety course.

 

The ammount of ignorance in the preceeding posts is outstanding. How would airsoft not exist if you applied the same safety of real guns? Use some common sense before answering that one. Of course at some point you will be shooting at another person, but when you aren't mag out safety on and barrel blocker......not really HARD. Hey now when you goto the range you're not really allowed to walk around mag in safety off are you? Use common sense.

 

Again I'm talking in the staging area or at non-regulated fields. But again you only skim posts you don't actually read them do you?

 

I wonder why I've never posted in this forum until recently......I think I'll go back to lurking, logic and common sense doesn't seem to have been "stocked up" for you and your families around here.

Edited by Blankflank

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Eagalism, technically by violating the 2nd Amendment they would also have to scrap the National Guard, they are the militia in this time and era. :a-laugh:

 

And Mr. Flank of Blankness, I think you are over reacting. People aren't saying "Hurdy Der ima gunna shoot u lawlz". They are saying that there is a difference between airsoft and firearms. And that if you ARE unsafe with airsoft, it's not as bad as a firearm. They never said they are unsafe. I guarantee people posting in this topic have trigger control, know how to respect all types of guns, and aren't going to rob a 7-11 with airsoft guns.

 

As for ignorance... George Washington wasn't the first technical President, John Hancock was the President when the Declaration of Independence was signed, that is why he signed first.

 

More American Generals were killed in the Battle of Antietam during the Civil War than any other battle in history.

 

Cats have 30 teeth.

 

God's name is Jehovah unless you are Muslim.

 

Komodo dragons aren't poisonous; they have a bacteria in their teeth that causes an infection and they use it to their advantage.

 

These are all things I just happen to know. I think the only ignorance here is your ego.

Edited by Coyote98

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I'm so glad I don't play with the people in this post. If you think for a second you can't lose an eye, which incase they don't teach this in school kids, it's not something that grows back, you are without a doubt a moron who should NOT be playing or handling anything that fires a projectile. If you do not treat your airsoft guns with the same safety and care of a real gun you should NOT be in this sport.

 

That's the sad truth of things. I'm not going to multiquote and respond to each post here which all said the same thing. But I honestly think the three of you need to use some common sense before posting next time. You know excatly what I mean and saying otherwise makes you look like a child who can't and shouldn't ever handle a gun.

 

Only you can tell what you mean. I (and everyone else here) have to respond to what you say. And what you said is simply wrong.

 

Sadly the term you are looking for is FIREARM, not gun. Guns can be anything that fires a projectile. Like a nailgun, or a nerfgun, or a bubblegun. Or just something that has the same shape as one. A firearm would be the term to seperate "guns" from "firearms" but you wouldn't know that unless you took a safety course.

 

You're trying to be pedantic, but you're really only arguing against yourself. There are indeed different categorizations of guns, and that's part of my point. There are hazards to using a bubble gun- someone could get bubble solution in their eyes. There are hazards to using nerf guns- fragile things could be broken with darts. There are hazards to using airsoft guns- someone could have their eye or teeth injured, or they may get a small welt. There are hazards to using firearms- if you are hit, there will almost be a substantial amount of damage done to you, and the chance of that being lethal is reasonably high.

 

They're all guns by definition, but they certainly pose increasing risk (in the order I mentioned). And with that risk comes different handling. We don't require a 20ft minimum engagement distance or full face protection for bubble guns because the risk is very different. Likewise, we don't require a rule of "never, EVER point this gun at ANYONE or ANYTHING you do not want to destroy" for airsoft guns. Why? They are not firearms. Of course, if you always treat the gun you're using as one that is a rung up on the danger ladder, you will be safer. If you treat a bubble gun like an airsoft gun, the chances of getting injured are minimal. If you treat an airsoft gun like a real gun, the chances of getting injured are also minimal. However we violate very important firearm rules when playing the game of airsoft. They are certainly treated differently.

 

Additionally, when people reference the words "real guns," I would hope you infer "firearm."

 

The ammount of ignorance in the preceeding posts is outstanding. How would airsoft not exist if you applied the same safety of real guns? Use some common sense before answering that one.

 

I'm not sure why you're asking this question. You answered it yourself in the sentence following it:

 

Of course at some point you will be shooting at another person

 

You won't be firing a firearm at another person anytime soon.

 

but when you aren't mag out safety on and barrel blocker......not really HARD. Hey now when you goto the range you're not really allowed to walk around mag in safety off are you? Use common sense.

 

I'm not sure what your point to this is. You're saying that you only sometimes apply firearm safety to airsoft. Which is in agreement with me.

 

Again I'm talking in the staging area or at non-regulated fields. But again you only skim posts you don't actually read them do you?

 

No, I read your posts. You said:

 

I hate to break it to you but Airsoft "Guns" should be handled and treated just as you would a real gun. The fact you don't think they should be grouped together is disturbing to me.

 

You then asked if people who disagree with you wave their guns around:

 

Are you the kind of kid that waves his gun around in the staging area with a loaded mag, finger on the trigger, and no barrel blocker? Or are you the kid that still plays at home with no goggles on in the backyard?

 

The fact that those rules only apply in the staging area are a testament as to how different airsoft guns are compared to real guns.

 

What you should have said if you wanted to be correct is "Airsoft guns sometimes share the same safety rules with real guns." You were arguing that airsoft guns and real guns are the same (or at least, that they should be treated the same). But airsoft guns are only sometimes treated as firearms.

 

I wonder why I've never posted in this forum until recently......I think I'll go back to lurking, logic and common sense doesn't seem to have been "stocked up" for you and your families around here.

 

Your choice, but if you do come back to posting, will you please learn to do so without calling people morons and children? It does nothing but subtract from the maturity of the discussion. Thanks.

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It is ironic that the only person acting childish in this thread is the same person who claims to have assaulted a child for being ignorant.

 

More hilarious now that you bring it up.

 

Oh and Blankflank. I have taken safety courses. Hunter Safety, and Handgun Safety. On top of basic Firearm Safety classes.

 

And I shouldn't have firearms? I'm dangerous? I've fired various .22s, SMLEs, Mosin Nagants, Nagant Revolvers, 8mm Turkish Mausers, Bushmaster AR-15s, Colt M16s, M1911s, Hi Point Carbines, Sig Sauer P226s, Tokarovs, 10mm Wyoming Arms pistols, Stoeger Cougars, and multiple other firearms. Not to mention a crossbow and my personal bow. And I have never, EVER harmed a human being. You seriously need to stop saying people are unsafe without knowing them.

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I'm 14

 

This says enough about you and the other kids in this thread for me to realise it's not worth the effort. Please continue to show how immature and ignorant you are.

If you're keeping track of things you don't know it would be, gun safety, proper terms, and law.

Edited by Blankflank

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This says enough about you and the other kids in this thread for me to realise it's not worth the effort. Please continue to show how immature and ignorant you are.

If you're keeping track of things you don't know it would be, gun safety, proper terms, and law.

 

Oh, I see how it is. You have a Mossberg 500? I like those. The stock is much more comfortable than the Remington 870 Wingmaster. I still prefer my Mosin Nagant though.

 

And no, I'm not talking about airsoft. Read all my posts and realize you really believe in too many stereotypes.

 

Besides, I'm not immature. I am not a normal teenage retard. I'm not ignorant. You are. Because most people would agree I'm acting more mature than you are at the moment, no matter what your age.

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Your choice, but if you do come back to posting, will you please learn to do so without calling people morons and children? It does nothing but subtract from the maturity of the discussion. Thanks.

 

This says enough about you and the other kids in this thread for me to realise it's not worth the effort.

 

I really only asked one thing of you, but unfortunately it seems that was too much. Can you please just stop posting in this thread if you're just going to be condescending and provocative?

 

 

To get back on the topic of gun control, an interesting link:

 

http://www.governor.ny.gov/nysafeact/regis...n-questionnaire

 

This pretty well highlights one of the big problems with "assault weapon" bans, and that's defining them. Virtually every pistol capable of accepting a detachable magazine is also capable of accepting a magazine that extends below the grip of the pistol, making it an "assault weapon" in New York. Just silly.

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:a-laugh: :a-laugh: "Does your firearm have a threaded barrel, allowing it to attach a sound suppressor, muzzle brake, or forward grip?" :a-laugh: :a-laugh:

 

The worst part is I selected pistol :a-laugh:

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To get back on the topic of gun control, an interesting link:

 

http://www.governor.ny.gov/nysafeact/regis...n-questionnaire

 

This pretty well highlights one of the big problems with "assault weapon" bans, and that's defining them. Virtually every pistol capable of accepting a detachable magazine is also capable of accepting a magazine that extends below the grip of the pistol, making it an "assault weapon" in New York. Just silly.

 

Well, I must admit that none of my rifles have a grenade launcher, and up to this point in time, I've never had a desire for any of them to have a grenade launcher... but I suddenly feel a strange need to get a grenade launcher. I wonder if a M203 is an NFA item, or if just the grenades that are NFA items.

 

 

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You can handle and treat your airsoft guns however you feel it is appropriate, but the fact is that they are not real guns. Someone saying that they own four guns but they support gun control, while admitting that the "guns" the own are actually airsoft suggests to me that they don't understand the difference between a real gun and a replica gun. If you can't see how that thought is disturbing, then you and I have no frame of reference to have a reasonable discussion on the issue.

 

Here's a simple brain exercise for you: when was the last time you took a real, loaded gun, pointed it at another person, and pulled the trigger? :rolleyes:

 

at 34 years of age I know how to handle guns weather they be airsoft or otherwise. Airsoft "guns" are just that... guns. Will they kill you with the same alarming rate as others using real firearms? More then likely no, HOWEVER they WILL and MUST be handled with the same care and maturity by me. I think your under the impression that I run around my house in my underwear shooting bbs at anything in sight and you probably think I do the same thing to a real firearm. Im not stupid, I know the difference and I know what real firearms can do to people.

 

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Hitler banned guns from the general public in order to have his third reich.

 

Factually inaccurate. The Nazi gun laws of 1938 made it easier for "Aryan" Germans to get firearms. The previous laws dating to 1928 were pretty much designed to keep guns out of the hands of the Nazis. (Didn't work so well. Criminals tend to not give a damn.) The Nazis liked armed Germans, it fit into their ideology of masculinity and strength. It also helped to have young men who already knew how to shoot when they were conscripted into the Wehrmacht. Good little German boys learned to shoot at their Hitlerjugend camps. It was however illegal for Jews to own firearms. This is something a lot of people point to as contributing to the ease of the Holocaust. Of course, doing so completely ignores the complicity of the general populace and the institutionalized Antisemitism that had been entrenched in Europe for hundreds of years. Sort of victim blaming if you ask me. Gun control didn't help the Holocaust happen. The indifference of the rest of the world did.

 

You'd be better off pointing to Mao Zedong.

 

Regarding the direction this thread's taken, I find it amusing that it didn't start going off the rails until airsoft came in.

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You live in a giant mythical bubble.

 

Thugs and criminals have access to cars. They will drive to you so it matters not how far away you are from bad places and people. That is a growing problem across my region. You are your own first responder. Even if a SWAT team could materialize in your home in 20 seconds you might be a dead body for 15 seconds. Doesn't happen often but folks who understand how vulnerable they are, are the ones who arm and train up.

 

Then there are disaster situations like storms, social uprising, and earthquakes. You probably don't understand the severity of Katrina and the LA riots where there was no order and people successfully defended themselves from violence with guns. It pays to be prepared. Doesn't mean you want it to happen.

 

 

For those of you that own guns and train/practice with them, I highly recommend that you get trauma kits to treat wounds and learn how to use the equipment.

 

I don't think you understand nor is there a need to throw out cynicism, that is how fights start. I could throw out a hundred reasons why I could "POSSIBLY" need a gun. And still throw out 200 reasons why I don't WANT ONE. So let me ask, are you more upset that I don't own a gun and SUPPORT the rights or are you more more upset that I consider an airsoft "gun" exactly that and not a real firearm because in my mind if Im supporting your rights the wtf is your issue?

In fact if you want me to, ill list everything I stand for and for some reason ill still be able to find someone who thinks the exact same way calling me an idiot, because that is essence what you just did to me.

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The fact of the matter is that airsoft guns and real guns should NOT handled with the same care and safety. They should be handled with similar care and safety, but if you treated airsoft guns like real guns, the game would be pretty boring, and if you treated real guns like airsoft guns, there would be a whole bunch of injured and dead people.

I disagree and agree at the same time. From a safety perspective, while not on the field in game play, it is best practice and most ideal to treat airsoft guns with the same care and consideration/handling as a real firearm. This is for various reasons. The first reason is obvious -- we don't want to accidentally harm someone who isn't wearing the proper safety gear. The second reason is more psychological. I can see how it would be easy for someone who owns both real firearms and airsoft guns to accidentally subconsciously mishandle a real gun if they did not practice gun safety while both handling real guns and airsoft guns. I know I, myself personally, would be one of the types if I was in the habit of waiving a gun around at people, keeping the gun off of safety, and having my hand on the trigger with airsoft guns then I would be more inclined to carry this irresponsible behavior over to when I am handling a real gun.

 

Get what I'm saying?

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I'm actually the opposite. I have my safety on whenever I'm on the field until I see the guy and I can hit him. That's because I had firearms before airsoft, so their safety was dominant over the airsofting ways.

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I don't see a point in a complete ban because illegal firearms are likely more deadly than legal ones (Full-Auto AK-74 v a semi-auto AR15). I don't see high-cap magazines necessary but guns are like cars, some people collect the exotic ones for the sake of collecting. The emotional angle people are playing is cheap in my opinion. If it isn't a hard reason that would hold up in court, I don't think it should be used to penalize lawful gun owners due to a killer's actions. For someone who knows how anything works enough, weapons can come from LITERALLY anything, so trying to control one won't remove deaths from existence.

 

I feel like airsoft can be a great way to teach how to properly handle and use a gun but also be very fun to do. People have the right and especially responsibility to decide what to do with Airsoft and real guns (particularly the latter). Frankly I wish the whole argument would cool down, disregard the recent shootings, and just look at the basic situations presented.

 

On a side note; people throwing bigotry and accusations are the reason debates like this go on for decades...

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I don't see a point in a complete ban because illegal firearms are likely more deadly than legal ones (Full-Auto AK-74 v a semi-auto AR15). I don't see high-cap magazines necessary but guns are like cars, some people collect the exotic ones for the sake of collecting. The emotional angle people are playing is cheap in my opinion. If it isn't a hard reason that would hold up in court, I don't think it should be used to penalize lawful gun owners due to a killer's actions. For someone who knows how anything works enough, weapons can come from LITERALLY anything, so trying to control one won't remove deaths from existence.

 

I feel like airsoft can be a great way to teach how to properly handle and use a gun but also be very fun to do. People have the right and especially responsibility to decide what to do with Airsoft and real guns (particularly the latter). Frankly I wish the whole argument would cool down, disregard the recent shootings, and just look at the basic situations presented.

 

On a side note; people throwing bigotry and accusations are the reason debates like this go on for decades...

 

Ditto. Although like you said with illegal guns being more dangerous, hi capacity magazines (like 30+ rounds) are important for our semi autos to ever compete.

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Well, I must admit that none of my rifles have a grenade launcher, and up to this point in time, I've never had a desire for any of them to have a grenade launcher... but I suddenly feel a strange need to get a grenade launcher. I wonder if a M203 is an NFA item, or if just the grenades that are NFA items.

 

Both. That's why the Cobray CM203 flare launcher was very popular for a long time in the film industry: it could be acquired much more easily and cheaply than a grenade launcher.

 

Frankly, I think "Do you support gun control?" is a loaded question. Anyone who doesn't "support gun control" in the sense that liberal politicians mean it could be accused of simply wanting firearms handed out willy-nilly and full freedom for everybody to own anything. Nobody sane will want 100% unrestricted access to all weapons by all people; nobody would want Adam Lanza to own firearms if he wasn't dead and not in prison. Nobody wants the man who just robbed them at gunpoint to be able to legally go and buy more guns after he gets his weapon confiscated.

 

The problem is that the gun control measures people propose are reactionary, rather than preventory. It becomes a matter of "What do we ban?" instead of "How do we keep this from happening?" They're simply applying blanket restrictions on the entire citizenry in the hopes that it'll trip up criminals and the violently insane on the way. If you can't tell ME why I can't own an AR-15, you have no right to restrict me from having one. "You might use it for bad things" isn't a reason. There's more good things I can do with a semi-automatic rifle with a 30-round magazine than bad things.

 

What should be done is trying to engage in preventory measures to keep people from turning to crime or mass murder in the first place. Improvement of the economy and helping the poor instead of leaving them to fend for themselves however they can, better mental health care and encouragement of people to talk about their problems and see qualified professionals instead of dismissing obvious warning signs, etc. Instead of trying to restrict what 99% of the population does in the hopes that the 1% will be stopped by it, we should be removing the chance for that 1% to do anything bad in the first place.

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What should be done is trying to engage in preventory measures to keep people from turning to crime or mass murder in the first place. Improvement of the economy and helping the poor instead of leaving them to fend for themselves however they can, better mental health care and encouragement of people to talk about their problems and see qualified professionals instead of dismissing obvious warning signs, etc.

 

I agree with you, but this is easier said than done. For example, the Aurora shooter was seeing a therapist. However, even if she strongly suspected that he was going to go on a shooting, she can't legally do anything about it unless he specifically says that he's going to hurt himself or someone else. And of course, the obvious response to that is "she shouldn't be that restricted." But that gets into a very complicated discussion about safety vs freedom. What if we grant therapists the authority to have police collect weapons and detain people who are strongly suspected to go on a shooting spree. What happens when someone is identified as a potential shooter and is stripped of their firearms, when in reality they were no threat at all? What qualifications would there be for this declaration? In practice, I think this is a difficult thing to tackle.

 

Instead of trying to restrict what 99% of the population does in the hopes that the 1% will be stopped by it, we should be removing the chance for that 1% to do anything bad in the first place.

 

Again, I agree with you, but in practice this is very difficult (if not impossible) to achieve. You meet diminishing returns well before you remove the chance for someone to shoot up a school.

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I agree with you, but this is easier said than done. For example, the Aurora shooter was seeing a therapist. However, even if she strongly suspected that he was going to go on a shooting, she can't legally do anything about it unless he specifically says that he's going to hurt himself or someone else. And of course, the obvious response to that is "she shouldn't be that restricted." But that gets into a very complicated discussion about safety vs freedom. What if we grant therapists the authority to have police collect weapons and detain people who are strongly suspected to go on a shooting spree. What happens when someone is identified as a potential shooter and is stripped of their firearms, when in reality they were no threat at all? What qualifications would there be for this declaration? In practice, I think this is a difficult thing to tackle.

 

There was an article in Shotgun News about that (I forgot if it was Kramer or Knox who wrote it). Basically there was a man in California who was under a lot of stress from recent things, and a neighbor during a home-owner's meeting heard him say a hyperbole akin to 'If more crap keeps piling up for me, I'm gonna kill myself!' So the neighbor called the police and reported he was suicidal. Cops showed up, arrested him, detained him in a mental health facility for the standard 24 hours on suicide-watch, and eventually it was determined that he was just being dramatic from the stress but ultimately was not a danger to himself or others. However, due to the hospitalization he was revoked of his gun-license and was essentially black-listed for a 'no-sale' status with future firearm purchasing. Luckily, after going through proper hoops and such for dealing with a judge on the matter and explaining the whole thing, his mental health 'infraction' was scrubbed from his record and he got his gun-license back. But again, he was a LUCKY case. People with brief psychological stress situations like that sometimes have to wait years for the incident's statute to expire (others get marred for life).

 

Contrary to what some people believe, there are individuals with severe mental disorders who DO return to being sane-minded people. I have a cousin with bipolar disorder and slight psychosis who was hospitalized as a minor several times until ultimately he was put on a prescription medication combo that worked perfectly for him. As long as he doesn't skip his once-a-day dosage (which is never), he's a perfectly sane and kind person (a bit weird, but everyone in my family is weird to begin with, including me).

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I agree with you, but this is easier said than done. For example, the Aurora shooter was seeing a therapist. However, even if she strongly suspected that he was going to go on a shooting, she can't legally do anything about it unless he specifically says that he's going to hurt himself or someone else. And of course, the obvious response to that is "she shouldn't be that restricted." But that gets into a very complicated discussion about safety vs freedom. What if we grant therapists the authority to have police collect weapons and detain people who are strongly suspected to go on a shooting spree. What happens when someone is identified as a potential shooter and is stripped of their firearms, when in reality they were no threat at all? What qualifications would there be for this declaration? In practice, I think this is a difficult thing to tackle.

 

Which is why I always disagree when people try to mandate psychiatric tests for firearms ownership: there is no good standard. But you're talking about something different from what I'm talking about. You're talking about therapists looking for signs that someone is a violent maniac and sending in the police to confiscate their property and detain them. I'm talking about being able to identify the problems that lead to this kind of violence and help the people before they find themselves committing such atrocious acts, which would involve both improving our knowledge of mental illness and how the brain operates and attaching less stigma to the illnesses. A big part of the problem is that people don't want to discuss their problems or let other people know about it, and I think the at least one reason is that there's a social stigma to any kind of "problem."

 

Again, I agree with you, but in practice this is very difficult (if not impossible) to achieve. You meet diminishing returns well before you remove the chance for someone to shoot up a school.

 

It's a better solution than blanket bans, which have a track record of failure.

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