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Why don't more people use heavier BBs?

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There's no reason to use the light .20s.... they lose speed so quickly and fly sporadically. There's no down side to it, you'll use less BBs to hit your mark.

 

.177 (4.5mm) steel BBs weigh approx. .40 grams, while a jumbo 6mm plastic BB weighing HALF that.... ballistics are atrocious, even in high end guns with tight bore barrels. Even a Daisy Red Ryder spits out a half gram steel BB just under 300 FPS. Why aren't people using at least .30s or higher?

 

Accuracy > All

 

A fast miss is just as bad as a slow miss.

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90% of the player base is have income restrictions. I can get 5000 .20 or 2500 .25 or 2000 .30.

 

Hmmm...what should I get...

 

Personally I shoot .28's

 

A guy I used to know would only shoot SGM's at $15.00 for 500. He carried 5 AK Hicaps into a fight each round...

Edited by Guges Mk3

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Also .20s are not as bad as you are trying to make them to be. I've seen no diffrence from .20s to .25s. No more accuracy or range. The only thing I have noticed is I'm spending $3 more per 5000 to have lower fps and slightly more tolerante to wind. Hell its either no wind or alot of find where I play, .20s or .25s its all the same.

 

I honestly just think I perfer .20s over .25s.

 

Apperntly I didn't have the hopup tuned correctly and someone had a rage fit over this post, sooooooo EDIT!

 

Maybe my expectations of accuracy are lower, if it hits a 1ft x 1ft target 8/10 times past 150ft, I'm happy.

 

 

Edited by Dawnzero

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A lot of it has to do with the price per round ratio. With lighter bbs, you get more rounds for your money. A lot of players simply want to cheap out when it comes to ammo.

 

On the other side of that, the heavier weight you go, the lower quality they tend to be. Most if not all bbs over .36g have air pockets in them. Heck lots of sub .36g bbs have air pockets as well, but I have yet to find heavier weights that don't. Those air pockets change the center of mass, and consequently the axis of spin on the bbs. That can really effect accuracy.

 

On top of that, not all bbs feed in every magazine. I use MAG 100rd mags. Currently I have found that Bioval .30g perform quite well for me. They have no air pocket, feed well, and are accurate. I would have gone with the heavier .32g that BioShot makes, unfortunately their bbs STILL do not feed properly even after their formula change. I have tested BioShot in my gun and they simply don't feed. From my research so far, BioShot and Bioval are the only companys that make .30g that don't have air pockets in them.

 

If I could find some .36g that didn't have air pockets, I would probably shoot those. For the record my rifles shoot 390fps, 383fps, and 350fps with .20g. The 350fps rifle hasn't been fielded yet so I have not tested the .30g in it yet.

 

So simply put, the quality isn't really there yet for the heavier weights.

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Guest alberty

I'd say the two reasons would be the price/value point and the FPS myth. 0.20g BBs are usually cheaper compared to other weights, and a lot of people playing think that gaining every bit more FPS out of their gun gives an advantage.

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I'd say the two reasons would be the price/value point and the FPS myth. 0.20g BBs are usually cheaper compared to other weights, and a lot of people playing think that gaining every bit more FPS out of their gun gives an advantage.

 

Which is ironic because they've been told 100 times fps isn't everything.

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Which is ironic because they've been told 100 times fps isn't everything.

You can lead a horse to water...

 

Along with that, many players aren't on an airsoft forum, so they are less likely to be told that. Sure you can hear it at the field, or from retailers, but forums are probably the best way to spread info and shove it down peoples throats.

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At extremes these graphs apply, it's also a freggin graph not actually how it works. Just like an fps calculator wont tell you your fps. Unless the bb's are shooting past 180ft bb weight hardly adds range. The minor changes don't add up to cost imo.

Unless you are using rhop or a over 400 fps gun, it really doesn't matter what weight you use. Atleast in my guns I've seen ZERO change in range and accuracy. My guns only have an effective range of 175 feet tho.

 

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My Marui's show accuracy differences between .20's and .25's. Shooting at about 200 feet (not sure exactly, its been awhile since I measured, between 175-200 feet for sure). Accuracy went from about 3ft of spray to 1ft of spray from using .20s to .25s. That's enough of a difference for me to use .25s. I'd use heavier rounds if I didn't lay down supportive fire as often as I do.

Edited by jgm

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Which is ironic because they've been told 100 times fps isn't everything.

 

 

Unless you are using rhop or a over 400 fps gun, it really doesn't matter what weight you use. Atleast in my guns I've seen ZERO change in range and accuracy. My guns only have an effective range of 175 feet tho.

 

I like how you say one thing, and then completely contradict yourself and bring up FPS again...

 

Players in my area are extremely stubborn. So I let them use their .20's to achieve their "further range" and then I outrange them with my .28's in my completely stock Dboys. Funniest part of it all is they think the R-hop is a bunch of hoopla. They're loss haha.

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I like how you say one thing, and then completely contradict yourself and bring up FPS again...

 

Players in my area are extremely stubborn. So I let them use their .20's to achieve their "further range" and then I outrange them with my .28's in my completely stock Dboys. Funniest part of it all is they think the R-hop is a bunch of hoopla. They're loss haha.

 

That's not contradicting, clearly you are inexperianced. FPS does have a factor in which bb's you should use and which you shouldn't. If I contradicted myself it would be saying, "I use .20s to get 400 fps"

 

Each bb weight has a suggested fps group to use it with. Maybe if you knew this you wouldn't be spewing out nonsense.

 

I could link about 100 posts related to this, but I don't wanna spoon you.

 

I'm also sure your Dboys will have a big enough spread I could walk thru it.

Edited by Dawnzero

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I use .25's. I noticed when I switched my groups became much tighter. They also punch through leaves and light brush a little better and resist crosswinds a little more.

 

It's all about inertia. A .20 may give 400 FPS at the muzzle, but will lose velocity pretty fast. A heavier round traveling slower will not shed velocity as fast and will impart more force on impact. That said- for getting to the target faster, greater range etc. The graphs show a gain in the 200 foot area, my experience is that most AEG engagements are in the 75-150 foot ranges in woodland and then there's CQB.

 

Try some different ammo wights figure out which works best for you.

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That's not contradicting, clearly you are inexperianced. FPS does have a factor in which bb's you should use and which you shouldn't. If I contradicted myself it would be saying, "I use .20s to get 400 fps"

 

Each bb weight has a suggested fps group to use it with. Maybe if you knew this you wouldn't be spewing out nonsense.

 

I could link about 100 posts related to this, but I don't wanna spoon you.

 

I'm also sure your Dboys will have a big enough spread I could walk thru it.

And clearly you're ignorant for assuming anything about a person whom you do not know, as well as a gun you have never seen or shot.

FPS has very little play in what bb's to use. You know about G-hop, correct? It's outdated now, as it was the precursor to the R-hop. It originated in Japan, where they have a 1J limit. With G-hop, the inventor(more or less) was achieving 100M accuracy with his BASR. Now if what you say was anywhere near true, he should have been using a .20 to achieve that range, which he wasn't.

But you continue to believe what you want. Proof and physics isn't proof enough for some. I know what I know and I use it.

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I'm not gonna sit here and argue with someone. If you knew anything yourself, you'd realize at that range the bb would be traveling probally under 100fps. Range, accuracy, and fps all go hand in hand. If you wanna start a fight do it with someone else please. I also said it was "SUGGESTED" if you can read properly, but that would be me assuming again....oh darn.

Edited by Dawnzero

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If you think you know anything and know enough to give advice, I'm sorry for you. All this talk from a guy whose guns can't shoot past 160'... what a joke. So because a bb is going slow at the end of its flight it doesn't count as a hit? Wrong. So its going slow at long range, big whoop. How often do you see white heavy weight bb's? Not often. Try dodging a dark colored bb you can't see, it doesn't happen.

 

Fact is heavy bb's trump light ones, as long as quality is the same. I'm not saying throw some .36's in your 200fps LPEG. I'm saying use a heavier weight that your gun can effectively hop. But appeartly your gun is garbage since it can't hop .25's.

 

And before you critisize basic English skills, you should proofread your posts for misspelled words...

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If you think you know anything and know enough to give advice, I'm sorry for you. All this talk from a guy whose guns can't shoot past 160'... what a joke. So because a bb is going slow at the end of its flight it doesn't count as a hit? Wrong. So its going slow at long range, big whoop. How often do you see white heavy weight bb's? Not often. Try dodging a dark colored bb you can't see, it doesn't happen.

 

Fact is heavy bb's trump light ones, as long as quality is the same. I'm not saying throw some .36's in your 200fps LPEG. I'm saying use a heavier weight that your gun can effectively hop. But appeartly your gun is garbage since it can't hop .25's.

 

And before you critisize basic English skills, you should proofread your posts for misspelled words...

 

I didn't say my guns couldn't use .25s I said I prefer .20s. 2 out of 3 of my guns shoot past 175 feet, learn to read. When a bb is going THAT slow at the end of it's flight you'd be lucky if the player being shot heard or even saw the hit. Doesn't matter if it hits, it matters if he calls it. I use Eliteforce .25s, I prefer .20s. I use .25s because my team all runs .25s so it's just easier to have interchangable mags and bb's. Quit being so damn hostile. I'm not sure why you're going on about spelling like a 16 year old either, who cares about spelled? Certainly not me. I think rhop is a passing phase in airsoft, sorry I only get 175ft out of standard hopup, I must not be a 1337codsofter. Oh darn.

 

So this doesn't go any further and so you cool down and chill, I am going to add you to ignore. Sorry you can't have a disagrement with someone without having a ragefit.

 

My guns have an effective range of 175 feet tho.

 

Edited by Dawnzero

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On topic, minus the raging, I prefer heavier BBs myself. A .36 resists wind much better than a .20 and has more inertia, therefore losing less energy along its flight path. However, I didn't see enough "long range 1337 heeaaadshottzz" to justify the cost of a .36, so I switch to a .30. I find that, for a gun that shoots 370 FPS with a .20, a .30 is the optimal weight. Again, personal experience. I saw a HUGE improvement going from a .20 to a .30, enough to justify the higher cost. I have the ability to engage people at 250' consistently in a gun that is small enough to use in CQB, so that works for me. Having a BB that is heavy enough to go 250' and still cheap enough to use quite a few of in a CQB situation works for me.

 

TL;DR, I like .30s more than .20s and they work for me.

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Dawn although I won't argue against your bb choice, R-hop is definitively not a passing phase imo, unless HS5 just drops dead or something...

 

The ability to get 8 inch groupings at 300 feet is simply not possible without R-hop...

 

Am I suggesting that you think R-hop is a gimmick? No, I just think that if spread around more, R-hop could make a huge difference in the world of airsoft (it already has)

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Watch your words jgm, he'll come after you. All I said was he was contradicting himself in different posts and he came at me making claims of my inexperience. Last I checked he has never met me. But what do I know? I'm actually me! And now I've been ignored, so I can't even correct him on how misspelled is actually a word...

 

Oh well. Arguing with the deaf.

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Guest alberty

Stop. Please refrain from personal attacks or retorts that stray from the discussion, everyone, even if you think you are correct or something.

 

If not, we will need to close this thread.

Edited by alberty

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Just out of familiarity I still run .25s. I will make the switch over to .28s when the bbs I currently have run out but I have about 8-10k still so that may take a while considering I'm just getting back into airsoft and don't play every weekend like I used to as a teen.

 

Only ever ran .2 bbs in shotguns, pistols, or for cqb where accuracy at 100 feet wasn't necessary. Anything with range or wind always had 25s simply due to the consistency in range and accuracy. Even if a .2 out ranged a .25, it was never effective enough to use on a regular basis. Heavier bbs are worth the extra $3 per bag. Compared to any other sport, that is honestly nothing. The fact that you can get 5000 rounds for under $20 is about as inexpensive as you can get.

 

 

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As discussed before, many airsofters typically use .2s for three major reasons:

1: Availability - .2g is the 'standard' round found in local stores where many casual players get ammo.

2: Cost - Many players at the fields I play at typically don't have extra money for higher quality ammo - they just want what gets the job done and will be enough to get them through the day.

3: Ignorance - Many of those same players also think a .2g that chrono's at 400fps will stay at 400fps 200 feet away, and thus believe the myth that FPS = WIN!

 

I like using different weights for different roles since I tend to shift how I play from game to game depending on what my team needs.

 

If I'm running Support? Simple, polished .2g bb's work great. They're cheap so firing off 20k in a weekend doesn't hurt so bad, and the spread from the light weight actually helps with the suppression of larger areas.

 

If I'm going Assault? .25g gives as good of groupings at close range as .2g, but holds that grouping better at longer ranges, but is cheap enough I can carry upwards of 4,000 rounds per game without spending too much.

 

Once I finish my SR-25, I will look at using .3g and higher since I will hold no more than 750 rounds at a time, and probably not go through all of it per game, so the cost will again be manageable.

 

But in the end, everyone uses BBs that work for them; I remember for the longest of time I found .2g worked great for what I wanted, and to be honest, it still does a good enough job to be satisfactory, but I do see the benefit of heavier ammo.

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I personally use .23 gram Goldenball bbs in my AEG custom AUG and AEP MP7. In my experince they are the perfect mix and wieght sitting between .20 and .25 and I have better range and accuracy with them, but that is just my sole experince. I got my whole group that I airsoft with to start using .23 gram bbs and they to also saw results.

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Ever since I switched to a flat hop I use nothing but .30s. Before, I'd go only as heavy as .25s because the .30s traveled slow and fell off quicker. With the invention of more consistent spin, flat rhops you are able to push heavier weight bbs with greater efficiency and results. Thus, I am strictly a .30 bb user and don't ever see myself going back.

 

Side note, as I progressed as a player, from high caps to mid caps and milsim games I find myself shooting less and less. Also, with the heavier bb I'm more accurate and don't need to full auto. I can justify paying more for less because I really don't need a whole lot of bbs.

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90% of the player base is have income restrictions. I can get 5000 .20 or 2500 .25 or 2000 .30.

 

Hmmm...what should I get...

 

Personally I shoot .28's

 

A guy I used to know would only shoot SGM's at $15.00 for 500. He carried 5 AK Hicaps into a fight each round...

hey guges, no, heres why: http://www.airsoftmegastore.com/4057-0_28g-gandg-armament-seamless-6mm-airsoft-bbs-3500rd-bag.aspx?doRating=true#tab-3

10 bucks for 3500 great .28s

I know this is necroing but its information to a good post they people still read.

heres why G&G are good at making bbs: http://www.airsoftforum.com/board/gallery/image/3084-1111213213/

1st place in quality and price was gunfire rockets which cant be imported outside of europe lol.

Edited by jroble95

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Thanks JR.

 

If those G&G's are 10.00...something is wrong with them...I would not buy them without visual inspections. FYI G&G does not own any of their BB production. It is all contracted out.

 

FYI...the German tests are not really relevant for the US. Many of those brands do not exist in the US. So...if they are decent you can't get them.

 

Also...for the 50 brands out there...most are toll produced out of less than 9 facilities in China or Taiwan.

 

Here is the largest:

25841797980_180a309633_b.jpg

 

But, for a reference or for data purposes what you posted is insightful.

Edited by Guges Mk3

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Thanks JR.

 

If those G&G's are 10.00...something is wrong with them...I would not buy them without visual inspections. FYI G&G does not own any of their BB production. It is all contracted out.

 

FYI...the German tests are not really relevant for the US. Many of those brands do not exist in the US. So...if they are decent you can't get them.

 

Also...for the 50 brands out there...most are toll produced out of less than 9 facilities in China or Taiwan.

 

Here is the largest:

 

25841797980_180a309633_b.jpg

 

But, for a reference or for data purposes what you posted is insightful.

prove it

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Why do you keep asking? You already don't recognize real evidence that has already been presented and seem to be looking for some sort of ALT-Facts.

 

People who are/have been in the industry can't hang out on a forum?

You keep this up A101 is going to ban you again, maybe permanently (Don't ban him yet A101).

I am only going to post items that shows a string of evidence of what I have done. If you can't piece it together...it's on you. Not going to spoon feed you any more.

Back of business card

 

32790718463_39701edb9a_b.jpg

and that Spartan Logo is on this.
airsoft-spart-srx303-cqb-a.jpg
and the front of the card

33221493870_a6ca683ed5_b.jpg

 

Yeah, I engineered a 300BLK Marked AEG for the retail market. Along with 6.5 Grendel and .50 Beowulf plus tens of other items that were "player" oriented from bbs and batts to AEG's.

I am especially proud of this design.
s-l300.jpg
2S Lipo 2200mah battery. There is no other unit on the market that is like this. And I will let the secret out (one would learn the secret if they bought one and took it apart)

 

The largest NC configuration lipo on the market prior to my invention is the

Nano-Tech 2000

17285_1__6.jpg

Mine beats it by 200mah. Has a better discharge curve, is 18mm shorter, but is 2mm fatter and at wholesale its $3.00 cheaper.

The secrets is that my 2S pack is not a real 2S pack. It's a 4S pack in a 2S configuration. I'll let your HS physics fill in the rest....

 

 

 

 

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That's funny...I offer the proof, but you can't see it.

 

Dial back the parental controls on your PC to allow you to see publicly loaded pictures. Because when you "see" all the pictures. You will see the "proof".

 

Loads for me...

Loads on my phone too.

 

Anyone else not seeing all the pictures?

Edited by Guges Mk3

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