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Dusti69

Polymers & Plastic Externals

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im wondering what everyones opinions are on current polymer and abs body parts that come on stock guns

how is the quality faring in your opinion?

 

ive been disapointed with something non-metal on every single one of the last 4 guns ive purchased

 

first one was the black ops viper javelin sportline m4 I bought at walmart. for 99 bucks I cant really complain. the polymer receiver was probly like a g&g cm clone attempt. polymer was a nice touch but it wasnt thick enough to be as sturdy as an abs m4 receiver. it left the whole front set bendy at the upper

 

second one was the so called new version s&t tavor that asgi was advertising with a metal gb and polymer body. what I got in the mail was an abs bodied gun with a plastic gb. plastic gb shell was of much sturdier quality than the gun externals. I emailed them about screwing my order up and sending me the old version and they told me there was no such thing as a new version and that the abs on the gun WAS polymer. it obviously wasnt. this plastic is cheap and flimsy and seems prone to shattering. its as though I went back in time and bought BE externals. the abs bodies on the jg g36's from a few years ago were much better. I would have expected a current abs bodied gun to be AT LEAST of old jg g36 quality

 

third was the echo 1 mtc3. the one with the neato sl-8 style stock. the externals are apparently jg/e1's new poylmer. im not impressed. there are still a few pieces of brittle abs parts and the polymer itself is the really stiff kind. so I cant tell if its rugged or shatterable. my instincts cause me to feel as though this gun could crack since this polymer still seems really plasticy

 

fourth was an umarex rebranded g&g ebb mp5a4. the lower grip and handguard are supposed to be polymer and I expected for the price and the rep of a g&g non sportline or cm model that the non metal materials would be of a superior quality .....however this wasnt the case. the lower seems nice enough but it had sharp seams. the handguard piece is quite thin and flimsy. I may end up breaking it in half just from taking it off and back on to access the battery

 

now why have I been so disapointed with these polymers you might wonder? cuz im used to buying cheap element and acm magpul externals that have been made of what was sposed to be cheap polymer. those parts were 10 TIMES BETTER! than anything ive seen on any of these guns. now the first two I can understand being cheaper guns and one being abs but not on the second 2 since they were in the $200+ and near $300 dollar range. kinda feeling like these companies should have provided better polymer for the prices theyre asking. both for their customers and their rep

disapointed because I bought a $39 dollar element acs stock made of identical material as the $255 dollar pts prs stock id also bought, but then I spend almost $300 on a high end gun with polymer parts that are several levels below much cheaper acm parts

Edited by Zemanova

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ive been disapointed with something non-metal on every single one of the last 4 guns ive purchased

 

first one was the black ops viper javelin sportline m4 I bought at walmart.

 

second one was the so called new version s&t tavor

 

third was the echo 1 mtc3

 

fourth was an umarex rebranded g&g ebb mp5a4.

 

Well aside from you trying to cheap out on good polymer guns and going for the cheap end of things, that's one problem.

The first two on the list hardly even count because anyone that's been airsofting longer than a month knows those are both crap. You also seem to very picky and hell bent on getting a metal gun. I'll tell you right now, with your price range and taste in cheap guns you'll get just the same buying a metal gun. Many RIS systems on metal guns easily fall apart at the weaker points, the magwells also easily chip and break, so on and so forth.

 

Polymer bodies on G&Gs are not cheap and very well built, I have the Femme Fatal Combat Machine which has put up with everything I have thrown at it. Same with my JG and my TM. You haven't picked out anything specific that you didnt like and why you didn't like it. I doubt airsoft companies design polymer guns with the mindset of impressing one person.

 

Your understanding of Polymer and Plastic is very poor, Polymer = fancy word for plastic. Like anything they can be made very cheaply or of quality.

 

If you spent close to $300 on any one of those guns you got taken for a ride.

 

Holy *#@% learn to use captilization and puntuation. I might not have good spelling but come on. How can you expect people to even try and take you seriously when they read one big :censored2: run on paragraph.

 

I suggest you stop buying from online airsoft stores, and either find a local store or buy guns used so you can inspect them in person and not get taken for a ride on prices.

Edited by Dawnzero

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Eh, I'm fine with most. I have the older version JG G36 so the poly-plastic it nice, and it's stronger than the pot metal on my JG AK lower reciever in some ways.

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if you don't have much of anything useful so post other than run downs and insults please refrain from posting in my thread

I am fully aware of what to expect from cheaper guns. most of my collection are higher quality guns yet I still buy some cheaper stuff for fun out of curiosity, or to project with

 

you make a good point with the cm receivers. ive heard of their quality. it was that quality I expected to find on my g&g

im trying to include a range from cheap to expensive quality here since I have been personally comparing cheap aftermarket externals to expensive high end gun stock externals. the quality doesnt add up

Edited by Zemanova

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if you don't have much of anything useful so post other than run downs and insults please refrain from posting in my thread

 

 

you make a good point with the cm receivers. ive heard of their quality. it was that quality I expected to find on my g&g

im trying to include a range from cheap to expensive quality here since I have been personally comparing cheap aftermarket externals to expensive high end gun stock externals. the quality doesnt add up

 

That first part hopefully wasn't directed at me, I think your understanding of the word insult is wrong aswell.

 

You got a G&G "rebrand" supposedly. G&G hasn't always been good, once open a time they where VERY poor quality. Now assuming you got this from one of the same retailers that passed off old crap as "NEW", you probally got an older G&G pos model.

 

What you consider "high end" might not be the same as others. From what I see you are trying to compare walmart or refurbished guns to new high end guns? That just makes no sense. Obviously like with anything you get what you pay for, but at a certain point high and low quality is gonna be the same no matter the dollar ammount.

 

Ordering anything but parts from airsoft retailers is pointless, they are out to make money not provide you with accurate information and customer service. Sad to say but it's true.

 

I have a G&G F2000, TM MP5SD5, and JG-PSG (I built it). All are polymer and none have cracked, chipped, nicked, or anything of the sort. The ONLY metal gun I have ever owned which was a JG MP5A4 RAS broken within the first day, the metal RAS gave way at the screw hole. Upon taking it apart I realised why. It was very cheap pot metal, I could bend it and it would snap with my bare hands. Utterly pathetic.

 

I should add my F2000 does have a crack in the body near the buttplate. The previous owner tried removing the spring guide plate without unscrewing it and took a screwdriver between the plate and the body. The crack is no longer than an inch and has not gotten any bigger over the months I've owned and played with it. Just thought I'd add that.

 

A $100 gun is a $100 gun, it's gonna be trash. If it can be bought at walmart it's not worth buying.

Edited by Dawnzero

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Calm down...

Zemanova was just asking an honest question, it wasn't about his personal set of guns, it was about the quality some of the new polymer guns. Both plastic and metal are suited for different things. JG makes their metal out of crap which is most likely why it broke on you. I can vouch for polymer guns like the mp9 and all kinds of tokyo maruies because they use high quality plastic. In the end though good metal beats good plastic in terms of durability. If you get a gun made out of CNC'd aluminum it will not break for a long time. there is a reason support beams in buildings are made out of metal not plastic...

 

for airsoft though polymer will serve you well and usually is sturdy enough to take the beating of an average airsoft battle, it also is cheaper and more affordable.

Edited by Soaring Alex

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Calm down...

Zemanova was just asking an honest question, it wasn't about his personal set of guns, it was about the quality some of the new polymer guns. Both plastic and metal are suited for different things. JG makes their metal out of crap which is most likely why it broke on you. I can vouch for polymer guns like the mp7 and tokyo marui though because they use high quality plastic. In the end though good metal beats good plastic in terms of durability. If you get a gun made out of CNC'd aluminum it will not break for a long time. there is a reason support beams in buildings are made out of metal not plastic...

 

WRONG Lego houses and log cabins are plastic and wood :a-laugh:

 

But yeah, some is shat some isn't. Pretty simple.

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Calm down...

Zemanova was just asking an honest question, it wasn't about his personal set of guns, it was about the quality some of the new polymer guns. Both plastic and metal are suited for different things. JG makes their metal out of crap which is most likely why it broke on you. I can vouch for polymer guns like the mp9 and all kinds of tokyo maruies because they use high quality plastic. In the end though good metal beats good plastic in terms of durability. If you get a gun made out of CNC'd aluminum it will not break for a long time. there is a reason support beams in buildings are made out of metal not plastic...

 

for airsoft though polymer will serve you well and usually is sturdy enough to take the beating of an average airsoft battle, it also is cheaper and more affordable.

 

Why about my comment makes you think I'm not calm? Please don't project your personal issues on me. I'm not saying it's about his PERSONAL guns, I'm saying it about all guns in that same price range or store, atleast most of them. The only part that was crap was the RIS, replaced it with a CA RIS anyway.

 

As far as the metal vs. plastic lets not go there. Sorry but if my PSG-1 was made of metal, I wouldn't use it nor would anyone else. Hence why you don't see a bunch of people running around with the M99 Snow Wolf. Plastic has pros and cons as does metal. If you take care of either and don't try digging a trench with your gun both will last equally as long. Metal has no advantage, it does have a disadvantage which is weight. Some people prefer the weight, which I still think is bs. They like the idea of a metal gun.

 

I don't mind metal guns, but some would just be way too heavy for airsoft. Also some real guns are being made from polymer also such as the F2000 and glocks (apart from the slide). I understand it's far better quality but you don't see those breaking. It depends on how careful and how well you take care of your guns imo.

 

I'd also like to point out, my MP5 which you see here:

582375_322409674541735_1512305917_n.jpg\

weighs more than:

6365_329549917161044_298254809_n.jpg

because it is metal.

Sad fact. I traded her (the Mp5) off because she was such a lard :censored2: and got a F2000 instead.

Edited by Dawnzero

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If you take care of either and don't try digging a trench with your gun both will last equally as long.

 

They better not make a Mosin Nagant airsoft rifle then, mine has been used as a shovel. And a boat paddle...

 

 

But honestly, nobody is saying you aren't calm, and if they made a metal PSG-1 I'd be fine using it. It's not like metal is a big deal, it weighs like a pound more.

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They better not make a Mosin Nagant airsoft rifle then, mine has been used as a shovel. And a boat paddle...

 

 

But honestly, nobody is saying you aren't calm, and if they made a metal PSG-1 I'd be fine using it. It's not like metal is a big deal, it weighs like a pound more.

 

Maybe on smaller rifles....but larger ones it's gonna weigh 2-10 pounds more. My psg weighs 6.5 pounds, the Snow Wolf made of metal and similar size is close to 20. Thats not 1 pound.

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Maybe on smaller rifles....but larger ones it's gonna weigh 2-10 pounds more. My psg weighs 6.5 pounds, the Snow Wolf made of metal and similar size is close to 20. Thats not 1 pound.

 

No offense, but try going on a day long hunting trip with a SMLE and 50 pounds of gears through a forest covered mountain THEN say 20 pounds is too much :a-laugh:

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Honestly in a lot of cases I like polymer better than metal. If the mp7 or mp9 was metal I would honestly HATE it. But on m4s I just like metal a tittle more than polymer due to the realism factor, but anything over 10 lbs should be polymer unless its an LMG or WWII replica because those are made to be heavy. Whenever I see the kriss vector though I always think its metal; it just looks like a metal gun.

 

On topic though some companies do use crappy plastic. The plastic on most sub $200 guns is usually pretty bad, although JG uses decent plastic. I never found the JG m4 or G36 plastic to be flimsy. The S&T tavor is just suppose to be complete junk though. The best polymer is probably the stuff magpul uses, but I tend to stay away from magpul stuff since it isn't really military and is more aimed at the "tactical" civilian market.

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No offense, but try going on a day long hunting trip with a SMLE and 50 pounds of gears through a forest covered mountain THEN say 20 pounds is too much :a-laugh:

 

Thats maybe a few times a year, not every friday saturday and sunday. Nor are you running, jumping, sliding and shooting.

The two are nothing alike and make no sense.

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sigh........ I like how this kid tries to talk about my capitalization and punctuation when he has mispellings and wrong word usages AND THEN tries to imply that umarex went guay guay back in time to bring back g&g guns from when they were crappy to rebrand in the present

 

I didnt want my thread to become a flame war

 

since someody brought up pot metal bodies. I don't really like the pot metal old style clone stuff anymore. ive moved onto steel bodied ak's like my real swords and vfc clones. I accept a pot metal receiver when its on a gun that I would consider a loaner. there is such thing as decent aluminum. element made some really sturdy aluminum ak receivers for really cheap. I would know, I had 4 of them. they were freakin beasts. d-boys had some really sturdy aluminum m4 receivers. I liked mine enough that I paired a d-boys upper with a g&p lower

 

as far as weight on that stuff goes that is why I like polymer parts. because theyre rugged and durable, they don't get all shiny, they reduce weight, and you can find that acm magpul for real cheap and it IS of wonderful quality

I had to bring up the walmart m4 and the s&t because the internal quality on both of them were way better than externally. I wish the external material would have been switched. I would have preferred an abs m4 and a cheapo polymer tavor

as far as walmart selling the black ops m4? I say way to go wally! its about time they started selling airsoft with real quality internals. the javelin internals most certainly arent junk for a stock gun. specially not for 99 dollars

and if you go online walmart is even selling even way better brands. also telling someone to not shop on an online airsoft retailer of exceptional reputation if just plain ridiculous

 

when it came to the g&g mp5 I expected something more rugged and not with such breakable external parts out of g&g

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when it came to the g&g mp5 I expected something more rugged and not with such breakable external parts out of g&g

 

If the product is officially sold by G&G...they take pride in their name.

 

If it's a r-ebrand and it "may" be made by G&G. There is no pride in the product. I would not be surprised that it is lower quality.

 

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when it came to the g&g mp5 I expected something more rugged and not with such breakable external parts out of g&g

I've handled and worked on a teammates G&G MP5 several times, and I thought it was really quite solid. Particularly the polymer forearm and stock. For the record, this was before they were working with Umarex.

 

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Thats maybe a few times a year, not every friday saturday and sunday. Nor are you running, jumping, sliding and shooting.

The two are nothing alike and make no sense.

 

Eh, until your hunt pays off. Then it's worse. Let's leave it at that.

 

 

As for talking about pot metal, I actually don't mind it. Look how long pots last :a-laugh:

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im wondering what everyones opinions are on current polymer and abs body parts that come on stock guns

how is the quality faring in your opinion?

 

ive been disapointed with something non-metal on every single one of the last 4 guns ive purchased

 

first one was the black ops viper javelin sportline m4 I bought at walmart. for 99 bucks I cant really complain. the polymer receiver was probly like a g&g cm clone attempt. polymer was a nice touch but it wasnt thick enough to be as sturdy as an abs m4 receiver. it left the whole front set bendy at the upper

 

second one was the so called new version s&t tavor that asgi was advertising with a metal gb and polymer body. what I got in the mail was an abs bodied gun with a plastic gb. plastic gb shell was of much sturdier quality than the gun externals. I emailed them about screwing my order up and sending me the old version and they told me there was no such thing as a new version and that the abs on the gun WAS polymer. it obviously wasnt. this plastic is cheap and flimsy and seems prone to shattering. its as though I went back in time and bought BE externals. the abs bodies on the jg g36's from a few years ago were much better. I would have expected a current abs bodied gun to be AT LEAST of old jg g36 quality

 

third was the echo 1 mtc3. the one with the neato sl-8 style stock. the externals are apparently jg/e1's new poylmer. im not impressed. there are still a few pieces of brittle abs parts and the polymer itself is the really stiff kind. so I cant tell if its rugged or shatterable. my instincts cause me to feel as though this gun could crack since this polymer still seems really plasticy

 

fourth was an umarex rebranded g&g ebb mp5a4. the lower grip and handguard are supposed to be polymer and I expected for the price and the rep of a g&g non sportline or cm model that the non metal materials would be of a superior quality .....however this wasnt the case. the lower seems nice enough but it had sharp seams. the handguard piece is quite thin and flimsy. I may end up breaking it in half just from taking it off and back on to access the battery

 

now why have I been so disapointed with these polymers you might wonder? cuz im used to buying cheap element and acm magpul externals that have been made of what was sposed to be cheap polymer. those parts were 10 TIMES BETTER! than anything ive seen on any of these guns. now the first two I can understand being cheaper guns and one being abs but not on the second 2 since they were in the $200+ and near $300 dollar range. kinda feeling like these companies should have provided better polymer for the prices theyre asking. both for their customers and their rep

disapointed because I bought a $39 dollar element acs stock made of identical material as the $255 dollar pts prs stock id also bought, but then I spend almost $300 on a high end gun with polymer parts that are several levels below much cheaper acm parts

Its not that polymers are always bad, its just that they use crapy polymer on airsoft guns. Polymers like Nylon 6/6 and PPS are exelent and used in military grade rifles such as the G36; however, ABS does not qualify as high strength, so when buying airsoft, metal is disireable.

 

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Plastic and Polymers, All the same. There :censored2: plastic, and good plastics. Some plastic bodied guns are insanely strong. Take a JG G36C vs a CAG36C (old school model)

 

You can instantly feel what has a more heft, and can take more abuse/nicer finnish and all around better.

 

Slightly mroe difficult with metals, until you actually run into something, you notice somethign wasnt up to par. Pot metal, and aircraft grade aluminuim G&P cnc'ed stuff. Two very different spectrum of quality and durability.

Weight doesnt mean much either, since as said a JG pot metal gun vs aircraft grade aluminum alloys have very different standards, and obviously different weights as well.

 

In essence you get what you paid for, some more than others, finding that perfect sweet spot is different for everyone's budget.

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Dawn, it's pathetic how you flame people on other forums for being grammer nazis and egotists/elitists then come on ASF and do exactly that. You need to address your social skills on a serious level, I doubt you really conduct yourself like that in real life because you will eventually come across someone with a lack of values like yourself and you will get the faecal matter kicked out of you.

 

On topic, Polymer isn't a material itself, it's a process of mixing plastic I believe which is why there are so many different levels of quality usually influenced by the brand. I've never had problems with it myself as I stick with steel/aluminium built guns. :a-grin:

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I guess thats why the body on the mtc has a sort of ..."pattern" to it. I member just the other day picking it out of the box and looking at it and wondering wtf is all this swirly crap?

 

maybe some acm company like element (if theyre even still alive) should start making polymer guns. because they apparently have the formula for the s**t down pretty well. if they can make a 5 dollar polymer ak/m4 grip out of nicer material than on a g&g proline then man would I be stoked to have a clone made out of that

 

whatever my ca proline g36 and star sl-8 are made out of, those are pretty excellent

 

that aircraft grade aluminum, even the cheap acm cnc stuff is a lot lighter than pot metal and stronger too. I dunno why more companies arent making steel bodied guns. like for real. theres the stamped steel vfc types and then the real swords I believe are forged steel which is heavier and waaaaaay more solidly durable. I can only think of 5 companies that make steel bodied guns and 4 of those are all ak variants. had to include ca because I THINK they make an m4 with a steel receiver. which makes me wonder why the hell didnt kwa do that

 

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hm... interesting thread.

 

As has been pointed out, quality varies a great deal from brand to brand and even within a particular brand. Finding a local brick and mortar that carries a wide range is a good idea, failing that, taking a look at the guns people bring to games. I've found that people are pretty nice about sharing. That way you can see and touch for yourself.

 

That said, I definitely have my preferences. For grips, I prefer a nylon-reinforced polymer. They have a distinctly different texture from a normal plastic--for example, the Magpul AFG. It costs almost 60% more than the PTS version and is nearly identical in terms of dimensions, but I HATE the PTS version due to the subtle difference in texture, not that it is 'bad.' The PTS version is more than sufficient for airsoft, but I just don't like the way it feels.

 

On the other hand, I picked up the Evike Matrix nylon-fiber body G36C, and hated it. I prefer the ABS plastic on my JG G36K.

 

Then there's my JG HK416. Not the sturdiest plastic body, but it is sturdy enough. It is very light, which is nice considering how much other crap I've got on/in the gun. They make a metal body for it, but chances are it's pot metal and will add little other than weight.... but then again, what can you expect for $45? A light weight, high-quality CNC aluminum body would cost at least twice as much as that--and in the end, wouldn't make the gun shoot any straighter. One area I think cheap plastic really shows its weakness is in the magwell, and though the plastic isn't the thickest, the magwell has decent stiffness so I don't worry about it cracking. It probably will eventually, but no time soon, and it's cheap so who cares? I did replace the stock pistol grip with a G&P nylon fiber unit with a vented motor plate that was on sale for $8--and that is the single best mod I made (the second would be the piece of electrical tape I used to stop the handguard from wiggling). So even though this is a cheap plastic gun, it is my primary.

 

I actually have a full metal CYMA MP5A4 that I added the Swordfish kit to, and yes, it is heavier than hell. Still like it, though.

 

Hmm... what else... I have a WE SCAR GBBR, and the polymer body is fantastic. Really nice feel, very nicely molded with limited flashing. I wish all polymer bodies were as nice as this. But then again, I don't have any really expensive guns, so take my opinion with a grain of salt.

 

On the other hand, my Dboys SCAR-H came with some sloppy seams, so I took half an hour and trimmed them down with an exact-o blade. On the positive side, the texture is good, and it is sturdier than the 416, with good coloring. So even though it isn't as good as the WE, I still prefer it over the JG plastic, but it doesn't add any functional advantages.

 

My Dboys AKS-74 (RK-03) was dirt cheap, and looked it; and this is an "all" metal/wood gun. It kinda rattles, and the furniture wiggles around a bit. The wood is very light and soft. Cheap, cheap cheap! As has been stated, you get what you pay for... but that said, I REALLY like this gun. Sure it looks crappy OOTB, but I stripped the paint, blued everything I could, and refinished the wood ($10 in supplies), and you'd be amazed at the compliments I get. Oh, and it shoots GREAT.

 

So... don't know if that answers your questions at all, but there you go. Hope it helps.

Edited by No_6

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Airsofting is a hobby that primarily is made up of a demographic group that doesn't have much (compared to other hobbies) disposable income. Because of that, money rules over all else. These chinese companies aren't out there to make your life better by providing happiness, they only want profit. Now pot metal casting is much cheaper than CNCing a block of T6 alluminum and some plastics are cheaper to create than others. If they can cut some corners and people still buy it, you can bet your :censored2: they will.

 

Also wonder why some ACM parts seem to have higher quality at a lower price? It's because you aren't seeing the full price. Let's assume that an Element stock has higher quality than a Magpul PTS stock. What doesn't element have to do? R&D, advertising, trade mark enforcement, returns, etc. Those all get factored into the final cost will drive up the price. Also, Element may be more interested in taking a lower profit margin, thus making the difference even more noticeable.

 

And if you are wondering, there's plenty of steel bodied guns. Just gotta know where to find them (hint: VFC BAR, SG M82, Asahi/JAC BAR, etc...)

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I do not support the use of plastic and polymers. Metal would be much better compared to them.

 

What evidence do you have? Because last I checked, a lot of modern guns are polymer(special stuff usually, but it's still plastic) and they last fine.

 

I do agree that some plastic is bad, and I agree some metal is good. It all depends on what you get.

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Guest alberty
You haven't seen the crappy CA metal bodies that would snap have you?

 

What evidence do you have? Because last I checked, a lot of modern guns are polymer(special stuff usually, but it's still plastic) and they last fine.

 

I do agree that some plastic is bad, and I agree some metal is good. It all depends on what you get.

 

No need to keep responding to that user. I think that post was just slightly relevant for the purpose of incognito advertising. I removed an external link in that user's signature that went to some company working with polymers and that is the user's only post that user literally joined today. My apologizes if this is incorrect speculation.

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