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berkie

JG BAR-10 upgrade

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I'm contemplating buying a sniper and a BAR-10 is one out of two options I'm willing to go with. the other one being the much pricier Ares WA2000 (beauty, but not as upgradeable).

long story short, I'm a left handed shooter with a dominant left eye. I want to take the easy way out by using either a WA2K with ambidextrous bolt pull or the VSR/BAR 10 with a PSS-10 grip and mod it to go to the left side.

 

All in all, considering I'm willing to buy a WA2K and have a upgrade plan that would put the total costs close to a 1000 dollars so (even though I'm hoping I wont spend a thousand on it) I have a large budget.

 

I've checked out the VSR upgrade guide and I've stumbled on a few questions I'd like to ask first.

 

1. If I want to install a Laylax zero trigger, which parts are included/compatible ? It says the orange piston isn't compatible and something about different sears and since I'm a newbie at sniper internals, it has me confused.

 

2. Between a PDI barrel with firefly hard bucking shooting 500 FPS and a Tanio Koba with a firefly soft shooting 360, what would be the best shot at 150 or 200 yards. I've read many good things about TK barrels and see them recommended. It would save me a LOT on unnecassery upgrades that would increase FPS and durability. if the TK is just as good or perhaps better/tiny bit worse, it would seem like a very interesting option for me to take.

 

 

The upgrade parts I've had in mind for a 500 FPS set up

 

JG BAR 10

PSS-10 bolt handle, modded to left side

PDI 6.01 430 mm barrel

Firefly hard bucking for VSR

PDI VSR barrel spacers (about 4/6)

 

Laylax 150 spring

laylax spring guide

Laylax spring guide stopper (can't find those anywhere tho)

Laylax high pressure NEO piston (red)

Laylax Teflon Cylinder

Laylax Zero Trigger

Laylax cylinder head

PDI first sear

PDI second sear

 

Do I need to order the PDI sears and Laylax red piston if I'm getting a zero trigger ?

And is the cylinder head necassery, is the air seal chamber good enough ? I've seen them in some builds and so I just copied it right in, but the 2008 guide doesn't have it for 500 FPS.

 

And last but not least, is the 2008 build still up to date. Are they still producing these parts. I know FF stopped production of the PSS-10 bolt but I have a place that has it. Are there better parts out there that will do the job just as well ?

Edited by tauron

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The zero trigger has it's own sears. I'm pretty sure all zero triggers use a 90 degree sear, so you just need to make sure you get a 90 degree piston.

 

I'd get a new cylinder head. The stock one meh, and I'm pretty sure the Laylax head is tapered.

 

The TK barrel is cool and all, but isn't any good at high fps, so go for a high quality regular barrel.

 

The bolt handle is cosmetic, so that's up to you. I personally just modded the stock bolt to lefty.

 

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Haha another thread!

 

1. Yeah zero trig is the whole trigger assembly and usually comes with its own 90* piston (Which I think is orange btw). I don't have one so I can't say definitively, but I've read that the orange piston that comes with it can fit PDI sized larger springs. Do the research on your own for that one, though.

 

2. The only replica that I've ever seen hit something that far away was MarineSGT's 800+ fps build. My bar hits upper 600s if not 700 with a .2 and I might be able to barely lob a shot that far, never hit anything.

 

I think I answered the TK question in the other thread.

 

I use nineball, I think their buckings are more consistent, but some people like FF.

 

Make sure to shim the hop arm and seal inside the bucking and chamber with teflon (plumber's) tape.

 

Definitely recommend the new cylinder head, I"ll try to throw on some pictures of my Polarstar one, which is about the same thing, to show the differences. Got perfect compression through the barrel.

 

For barrel spacers, I just wrap lots of e-tape around it until it's solid in the ob. Check to make sure that the PDI spacers will work in the stock tapered ob (if getting the pro sniper version) and not just in PDI's bull barrel if you still want those.

 

I don't think the teflon cylinder is really necessary, if you're strong enough and oil the outside enough, it doesn't really matter much, especially for 500 fps. But if you need it, then go for it... $$$$

 

One last this for the bar: make sure you do something to keep the pins at the back of the cylinder in place, the bolt handle broke off in my hand on my first (stock) cylinder.

 

I have been out of airsoft for a good 3 years and have plenty of questions of my own for all the new trends like r-hop and more common lrbs and such, but I doubt that the 08 guide is still wholly relevant.

 

Seven

 

EDIT: pics

 

post-81586-1361562564_thumb.jpg

 

post-81586-1361562624_thumb.jpg

 

You will notice that the aftermarket head has an angled tip instead of stepped tip, this helps it to seal better. Also, the inner diameter of the polarstar cylinder head is slightly larger than stock, even at the nozzle.

Edited by 7thstreet

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The zero trigger has it's own sears. I'm pretty sure all zero triggers use a 90 degree sear, so you just need to make sure you get a 90 degree piston.

 

I'd get a new cylinder head. The stock one meh, and I'm pretty sure the Laylax head is tapered.

 

The TK barrel is cool and all, but isn't any good at high fps, so go for a high quality regular barrel.

 

The bolt handle is cosmetic, so that's up to you. I personally just modded the stock bolt to lefty.

 

TheBauer, who has written a how-to guide for such a mod, said that with the PSS10 bolt handle you won't need to cut in the body. I also like the look of it and I don't like the idea of chopping up that body.

 

Haha another thread!

 

1. Yeah zero trig is the whole trigger assembly and usually comes with its own 90* piston (Which I think is orange btw). I don't have one so I can't say definitively, but I've read that the orange piston that comes with it can fit PDI sized larger springs. Do the research on your own for that one, though.

 

2. The only replica that I've ever seen hit something that far away was MarineSGT's 800+ fps build. My bar hits upper 600s if not 700 with a .2 and I might be able to barely lob a shot that far, never hit anything.

 

I think I answered the TK question in the other thread.

 

I use nineball, I think their buckings are more consistent, but some people like FF.

 

Make sure to shim the hop arm and seal inside the bucking and chamber with teflon (plumber's) tape.

 

Definitely recommend the new cylinder head, I"ll try to throw on some pictures of my Polarstar one, which is about the same thing, to show the differences. Got perfect compression through the barrel.

 

For barrel spacers, I just wrap lots of e-tape around it until it's solid in the ob. Check to make sure that the PDI spacers will work in the stock tapered ob (if getting the pro sniper version) and not just in PDI's bull barrel if you still want those.

 

I don't think the teflon cylinder is really necessary, if you're strong enough and oil the outside enough, it doesn't really matter much, especially for 500 fps. But if you need it, then go for it... $$$$

 

One last this for the bar: make sure you do something to keep the pins at the back of the cylinder in place, the bolt handle broke off in my hand on my first (stock) cylinder.

 

I have been out of airsoft for a good 3 years and have plenty of questions of my own for all the new trends like r-hop and more common lrbs and such, but I doubt that the 08 guide is still wholly relevant.

 

Seven

 

Yeah another post. I havent bought either gun yet, right now I'm making to-buy lists for both and am going to weigh the pro's against the cons of each gun. The WA2K looks are hard to beat, but sadly the platform isnt nearly as upgradeable as the VSR. In ways the WA2K could be cheaper if I replace every single part on the VSR that would affect performance, and if I did the same to the WA2K, simply because I can only swap out the spring parts + cylinder + piston, the bucking and the barrel. If I would pimp out both to their max, the VSR would obviously perform better than the WA2K. And I can't justify buying the WA2K just to let it gather dust in a glass cage, it must be used in the field and it must deliver the results I expect of a bolt action, range and precision. What it would cost to get it that far doesn't matter.

 

Sadly, I only need one sniper so I can't justify getting both and pimping them both out :(

 

Edited by tauron

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you really don't need a lot of the stuff you listed. in order to get the best distance possible, you need an ER-Hop and LRB combo, plus SUPER heavy BB's.

 

Laylax Zero Trigger + Piston (they come together for VSR-10's)

Laylax spring guide

Laylax 150 spring

 

^^^thats it as far as cylinder components go. you really don't need the teflon cylinder for a m150 spring. it doesn't make the bolt pull easier. it just makes the bolt cycle smoother.

 

PDI Hop Up unit

Prometheus 6.03x430mm AEG barrel. if prommy doesn't make that size AEG barrel, get a slightly longer barrel and cover it with a mock suppressor.

PDI W-Hold bucking

PDI barrel spacers

HS5 ER-Hop and EZ-LRB

 

 

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you really don't need a lot of the stuff you listed. in order to get the best distance possible, you need an ER-Hop and LRB combo, plus SUPER heavy BB's.

 

Laylax Zero Trigger + Piston (they come together for VSR-10's)

Laylax spring guide

Laylax 150 spring

 

^^^thats it as far as cylinder components go. you really don't need the teflon cylinder for a m150 spring. it doesn't make the bolt pull easier. it just makes the bolt cycle smoother.

 

PDI Hop Up unit

Prometheus 6.03x430mm AEG barrel. if prommy doesn't make that size AEG barrel, get a slightly longer barrel and cover it with a mock suppressor.

PDI W-Hold bucking

PDI barrel spacers

HS5 ER-Hop and EZ-LRB

 

I have considered using the PDI Hop up unit to hold an AEG barrel, but the prommy barrel wasn't one I was thinking about :P

Like I said, Money isn't an issue and I could get a PDI 6.01 430mm for VSR. I have a 550mm prommy lying around that was meant for the SIG 556 DMR, but it never arrived and I cancelled it. I figured I'd put it in a different DMR, so I got a M14 and then I found out they have a whole different barrel thing going on..

 

I'll assume that the accuracy part will be because of the R-hop, and not so much about the barrel. Would having a PDI AEG barrel have a noticable improvement or am I asking something blasphemous because it can't get any straighter than this.

Edited by tauron

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Sniperx2s,

 

Do you have a new thread comparing the PDI chamber to tm's precision? TCF, MarineSGT, and most of the respected members of the boards still say the precision chamber is best.

 

Unless the er-hops or lrbs only works with aeg type barrels? I thought Hunterseeker made the r-hop to fit all chambers? Man I have to research this thing, I feel dumb again :a-blushing: :a-blushing:

 

And did Bioval ever come out with their good heavy bbs?

 

Seven

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Sniperx2s,

 

Do you have a new thread comparing the PDI chamber to tm's precision? TCF, MarineSGT, and most of the respected members of the boards still say the precision chamber is best.

 

Unless the er-hops or lrbs only works with aeg type barrels? I thought Hunterseeker made the r-hop to fit all chambers? Man I have to research this thing, I feel dumb again :a-blushing: :a-blushing:

 

And did Bioval ever come out with their good heavy bbs?

 

Seven

 

Would a regular R hop work too ? I don't feel comfortable cutting in a barrel worth more than a hundred dollars. My max FPS is 500 and I probably will be restricted to 0.30 gram bb's since we can only use BIO bb's over here.

 

the list I have right now is as follows:

 

JG BAR-10

barrel: PDI 430mm barrel for VSR-10

Barrel spacers: 4 spacers total

chamber: Tokyo Marui Precision chamber (I'll assume it's from the Tokyo Marui Precision Brass Barrel & chamber set for VSR-10 ? )

bucking: Nineball hard bucking

IR hop with M-nubs

 

Laylax spring guide

Laylax 150 spring

Laylax Cylinder Head

Laylax Zero Trigger system

Laylax Silent Damper

 

 

Unless the PDI chamber + PDI barrel combination proves to better, I will probably run this.

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sorry for the late reply as I don't check on the VSR-10 subforums much.

 

Do you have a new thread comparing the PDI chamber to tm's precision? TCF, MarineSGT, and most of the respected members of the boards still say the precision chamber is best.

 

I'm not sure where you are getting the info on this, but check the dates on the post. it may be outdated information. There was a time when the TM precision chamber and the Laylax Aero chamber was the ONLY upgraded chamber option. If they made the statement, then it may be before PDI released the VSR-10 chamber, and they were simply comparing the TM precision chamber and the Laylax chamber. For most though, PDI is considered the best as far as upgrade parts go.

 

Unless the er-hops or lrbs only works with aeg type barrels? I thought Hunterseeker made the r-hop to fit all chambers? Man I have to research this thing, I feel dumb again

You are correct. The ER-Hop works for all chambers except for VSR-10 chambers that do not utilize AEG cut barrels. The bucking on standard VSR-10 barrels is too short to enable the use of the ER Hop. So you can also include pistols at this point. However, R-Hop still works fine on standard VSR-10 chambers.

 

And did Bioval ever come out with their good heavy bbs?

Yes, but IIRC, they are discontinued. I'm REALLY not sure on this one, but last time I checked, .40g+ bb's were not available on their main website.

 

 

<AT>Tauron. Do not get a 6.01mm Barrel. For OPTIMAL accuracy, get a PDI 6.08. PDI states that a 6.01 offers the best FPS, while a 6.08 offers the best accuracy.

 

Would a regular R hop work too ? I don't feel comfortable cutting in a barrel worth more than a hundred dollars. My max FPS is 500 and I probably will be restricted to 0.30 gram bb's since we can only use BIO bb's over here.

Yes, but you are severely hampering your effective range with .30's. They are relatively light, since sub 400 FPS aeg's can push that out pretty far with R-Hops.

 

Unless the PDI chamber + PDI barrel combination proves to better, I will probably run this.

in my experience, it is better. The TM chamber has a weak point in its design. The bar which adjusts the hop up amount puts an uneven pressure over the bb, which causes it skew to the right. a top dead center mod would usually fix this, but if you are unwilling to do the mod, a PDI chamber would be superior. Plus, the PDI chamber has TWO hop up arms, which means you can adjust not only up and down, but left and right as well.

 

PDI is probably the best for everything. If you have the money to go PDI, then go PDI.

 

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I'm just a random guy passing by.

 

PDI/Laylax Chamber + AEG Barrel + ER-hop = blows the crap out of everything else.

 

Speaking of barrels....I still need to get one for this....

DSC003861_zps19d1b449.jpg

 

Funny to me when Mike put in the VSR Chamber when he built the Mantis I felt like the hop was downgraded.......

That Tanaka's hop was identical to R-hop....

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<AT>Tauron. Do not get a 6.01mm Barrel. For OPTIMAL accuracy, get a PDI 6.08. PDI states that a 6.01 offers the best FPS, while a 6.08 offers the best accuracy.

 

 

Yes, but you are severely hampering your effective range with .30's. They are relatively light, since sub 400 FPS aeg's can push that out pretty far with R-Hops.

 

 

in my experience, it is better. The TM chamber has a weak point in its design. The bar which adjusts the hop up amount puts an uneven pressure over the bb, which causes it skew to the right. a top dead center mod would usually fix this, but if you are unwilling to do the mod, a PDI chamber would be superior. Plus, the PDI chamber has TWO hop up arms, which means you can adjust not only up and down, but left and right as well.

 

PDI is probably the best for everything. If you have the money to go PDI, then go PDI.

 

Sadly, in my country the selection of BB's is limited to BIO BB's due to strict environmental laws. It's very hard to find biodegradable sniper grade BB's, the heaviest I could find are the 0,30 grams and they are all from neighboring countries.

 

 

I've made a few changes in my setup-to-be,

 

JG BAR-10

barrel: PDI 6.08 509mm inner barrel

Barrel spacers: 4 spacers total

chamber: PDI hop up chamber V2

bucking: Undecided soft bucking, I have Systema, Prometheus and Firefly lying around. (probably systema tho)

IR hop with M-nubs

 

Laylax spring guide

Laylax 150 spring

Laylax Cylinder Head

Laylax Zero Trigger system

Laylax Silent Damper

 

It said that the regular cylinderhead of the TM VSR10 would fit the PDI chamber, does that also work for the Laylax Cylinder Head ?

 

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Sniper,

 

The threads I was looking at range from 09 to 11 and it looks like sometime in mid 2011, there was a sudden switch where everyone just started going with the PDI. For a few months before the switch (right after the PDI showed up), many considered them equals, and then the tm fell off the earth. So you're right, I was looking at outdated info, though there isn't much concensus on which is definately better (with tdc). It also looks like all the sceen names I'm used to looking for have since left the field, so I guess I'm just an old, lost relic now haha

 

I can personally vouch for PDI's quality, though, so I'm not doubtful that it's good.

 

 

EDI,

 

grrrr :a-nonod::jumpon: :jumpon: I'm jealous :a-wink:

 

 

Taur,

 

You can get nice big sheets of sorbo from mcmastercarr or some other place like this in Europe for quite a bit cheaper than those laylax dampers. And agan, make sure the barrel spacers you get will fit 4 spacers properly in your model and don't forger about tape :a-grin: the rest looks good.

 

Seven

Edited by 7thstreet

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Sniper,

 

The threads I was looking at range from 09 to 11 and it looks like sometime in mid 2011, there was a sudden switch where everyone just started going with the PDI. For a few months before the switch (right after the PDI showed up), many considered them equals, and then the tm fell off the earth. So you're right, I was looking at outdated info, though there isn't much concensus on which is definately better (with tdc). It also looks like all the sceen names I'm used to looking for have since left the field, so I guess I'm just an old, lost relic now haha

 

I can personally vouch for PDI's quality, though, so I'm not doubtful that it's good.

 

 

EDI,

 

grrrr :a-nonod::jumpon: :jumpon: I'm jealous :a-wink:

 

 

Taur,

 

You can get nice big sheets of sorbo from mcmastercarr or some other place like this in Europe for quite a bit cheaper than those laylax dampers. And agan, make sure the barrel spacers you get will fit 4 spacers properly in your model and don't forger about tape :a-grin: the rest looks good.

 

Seven

 

Air-lab sells sorbo pads + neopad for 5 Britpounds, I should ask if he can make one for a VSR.

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I'm not telling you to do this, but one option for bbs would be to buy a bag of bio and one of the bbs you want and just put the good bbs in the bio bag? You are using a basr, so your environmental impact would be minimal. Note again that I am talking theoretically. Just an option.

 

Seven

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I'm not telling you to do this, but one option for bbs would be to buy a bag of bio and one of the bbs you want and just put the good bbs in the bio bag? You are using a basr, so your environmental impact would be minimal. Note again that I am talking theoretically. Just an option.

 

Seven

 

Been thinking about that too :P they wont be able to see as long as the coloring is right. I have some things ordered from abroad, I could put a few bags of BB with those, they have heavier ones. What weight is recommended for 500 fps ?

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I've never done it before, I have no powertools lying around, just some files, a hacksaw, a vice and a soldering station

 

Files are all you need.

 

There's always the first time.

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I'm contemplating buying a sniper and a BAR-10 is one out of two options I'm willing to go with. the other one being the much pricier Ares WA2000 (beauty, but not as upgradeable).

long story short, I'm a left handed shooter with a dominant left eye. I want to take the easy way out by using either a WA2K with ambidextrous bolt pull or the VSR/BAR 10 with a PSS-10 grip and mod it to go to the left side.

 

All in all, considering I'm willing to buy a WA2K and have a upgrade plan that would put the total costs close to a 1000 dollars so (even though I'm hoping I wont spend a thousand on it) I have a large budget.

 

I've checked out the VSR upgrade guide and I've stumbled on a few questions I'd like to ask first.

 

1. If I want to install a Laylax zero trigger, which parts are included/compatible ? It says the orange piston isn't compatible and something about different sears and since I'm a newbie at sniper internals, it has me confused.

 

2. Between a PDI barrel with firefly hard bucking shooting 500 FPS and a Tanio Koba with a firefly soft shooting 360, what would be the best shot at 150 or 200 yards. I've read many good things about TK barrels and see them recommended. It would save me a LOT on unnecassery upgrades that would increase FPS and durability. if the TK is just as good or perhaps better/tiny bit worse, it would seem like a very interesting option for me to take.

 

 

The upgrade parts I've had in mind for a 500 FPS set up

 

JG BAR 10

PSS-10 bolt handle, modded to left side

PDI 6.01 430 mm barrel

Firefly hard bucking for VSR

PDI VSR barrel spacers (about 4/6)

 

Laylax 150 spring

laylax spring guide

Laylax spring guide stopper (can't find those anywhere tho)

Laylax high pressure NEO piston (red)

Laylax Teflon Cylinder

Laylax Zero Trigger

Laylax cylinder head

PDI first sear

PDI second sear

 

Do I need to order the PDI sears and Laylax red piston if I'm getting a zero trigger ?

And is the cylinder head necassery, is the air seal chamber good enough ? I've seen them in some builds and so I just copied it right in, but the 2008 guide doesn't have it for 500 FPS.

 

And last but not least, is the 2008 build still up to date. Are they still producing these parts. I know FF stopped production of the PSS-10 bolt but I have a place that has it. Are there better parts out there that will do the job just as well ?

This was probably already answered but I will help.

First of all, what weight will you be shooting at?

If you go for a Laylax trigger you need a Laylax Ppston. The trigger comes with the piston and a PDI won't work.

Get a PDI spring. They're better than Laylax.

Get an EdGi barrel. It has a better finish than the PDI. Only thing PDI has better is material.

Between Laylax and PDI, I recommend PDI. If you are going Laylax then you might as well go for an AA build. Much cheaper, same performance. The majority of the experienced snipers at airsoftsniperforum.com use AA parts.

But, there are better parts than PDI and Laylax.

Springer's S Trigger is better than the PDI and Laylax trigger. Also, if you get a Laylax trigger and it breaks you will have to buy a new one as Laylax does not sell replacement parts. The PDI V Trigger does. It also has an adjustable trigger pull. It is more realistic, but you can go either one. I do recommend PDI but if you go PDI then you need to go PDI Cylinder. Same for Laylax.

The parts that are better than PDI and Laylax are EdGi. Specifically the piston and cylinder. If you are going to be pushing .43's then the EdGi cylinder and piston will work the best. I believe the material is much stronger. Also, if you are going to incorporate joule creep then the EdGi heavy piston will beat both the PDI and Laylax. You might need to trim the weight down a bit, but if you order from EdGi's US seller he will do it for you for free.

 

And lastly, PDI is on sale on x fire.

In total, you will pay:

PDI Cylinder set: 170

PDI V trigger : 110

PDI Spring: 20

EdGi Barrel: 85

And that will give you similar if not better performance than the Laylax one. Definitely not worse performance.

Oh, and I heard 9 ball buckings have great air seal.

 

Also, get an AA chamber if you are going to get a new one.

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you really don't need a lot of the stuff you listed. in order to get the best distance possible, you need an ER-Hop and LRB combo, plus SUPER heavy BB's.

 

Laylax Zero Trigger + Piston (they come together for VSR-10's)

Laylax spring guide

Laylax 150 spring

 

^^^thats it as far as cylinder components go. you really don't need the teflon cylinder for a m150 spring. it doesn't make the bolt pull easier. it just makes the bolt cycle smoother.

 

PDI Hop Up unit

Prometheus 6.03x430mm AEG barrel. if prommy doesn't make that size AEG barrel, get a slightly longer barrel and cover it with a mock suppressor.

PDI W-Hold bucking

PDI barrel spacers

HS5 ER-Hop and EZ-LRB

You should not get the PDI hopup. It sucks.

Yes, it is true he needs heavy bb's to get long ranges but if he uses a light piston and does not have airseal he will chrono way to high with .20. I recommend joule creep. For this, he will do better with an EdGi heavy piston, not the Laylax one.

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OK, so now I will go search a youtube vid that shows me how to do this and is not made by a 14 year old wielding a powertool :P

 

wish me luck, I might need it

Okay, first of all you do not need to ER hop. If you are not lifting over .45 it is NOT needed. Careful (not sure if you know him, he's a user on airsoftsniperforums.com) pushed his sniper to 450 feet with an r-hop. I have been told by him that it is less consistent.

For the weight you are shooting r-hop will be best.

 

And even though I did recommend joule creep, make sure your field allows it. It does happen in every rifle with heavier bb's no matter what, but if they don't let you purposely do it that much then you have to do it very slightly, or convince them otherwise.

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