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propane/green gas alternative?

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Your field allows green gas but not propane? Site managers must be geniuses. There are a few propellants that are close to propane levels like hfc22 and a few others, but will generally cost just as much as the commercial green gas as you'll need to buy it in bulk and invest in a refilling rig (not all that expensive though) to get some savings out of it. Here's a better solution for you. But AI Gas Cans and simply refill them with propane when nobody's looking like inside the rest room or inside your car and go back into the playing area with the Gas Can only.

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Your field allows green gas but not propane? Site managers must be geniuses. There are a few propellants that are close to propane levels like hfc22 and a few others, but will generally cost just as much as the commercial green gas as you'll need to buy it in bulk and invest in a refilling rig (not all that expensive though) to get some savings out of it. Here's a better solution for you. But AI Gas Cans and simply refill them with propane when nobody's looking like inside the rest room or inside your car and go back into the playing area with the Gas Can only.

 

Hmm. Sounds like a shady suggestion for a game/sport based on trust and honor.

 

The insurance companies that most CQB places use specify that you can't use propane indoors because it's deemed hazardous to use indoors. Back when this policy was written, most green gas cans were not what it is today which is often times propane. It has nothing to do with management. They would love to carry and sell propane tanks and adapters.

 

On other note, because indoor/CQB fields are tight quarters and often not wel ventilated, the nasty smell of propane tends to linger around. On a CQB field, you can immediately tell when ONE person is using propane because of the smell. If everyone on the field was using it, I'm not sure if I could play there without getting nauseated.

Edited by govtcheez

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I have to agree with govtcheez, Its a sport of trust and all the background info he said is legitimate. Honestly just see if your gun can accept CO2 mags. They are a lot cheaper and easier to use in my opinion.

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I have to agree with govtcheez, Its a sport of trust and all the background info he said is legitimate. Honestly just see if your gun can accept CO2 mags. They are a lot cheaper and easier to use in my opinion.

 

It's about trust and honour and the site is scamming its players. Neither gas is more dangerous than the other, but I'm willing to bet they sell green gas for say... $15 a can? Whereas propane is cheap if you can bring your own.

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actually 14 dollars a can. another places sells it for 15.

 

Co2 is out of the option, since I run the LM4, and I doubt that thing can handle a Co2 mag. plus I don't want to replace my 6 green gas mags with 6 co2 mags.

 

is it possible to fill it with a madbull co2 charger? I seriously doubt that would work, but might as well ask.

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actually 14 dollars a can. another places sells it for 15.

 

Co2 is out of the option, since I run the LM4, and I doubt that thing can handle a Co2 mag. plus I don't want to replace my 6 green gas mags with 6 co2 mags.

 

is it possible to fill it with a madbull co2 charger? I seriously doubt that would work, but might as well ask.

 

As I had said, you can get HFC22 in the auto parts aisle at Wal-Mart. That's your alternative. However, I'm not certain of where to get an adapter for it.

Edited by turtletech

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actually 14 dollars a can. another places sells it for 15.

 

Co2 is out of the option, since I run the LM4, and I doubt that thing can handle a Co2 mag. plus I don't want to replace my 6 green gas mags with 6 co2 mags.

 

is it possible to fill it with a madbull co2 charger? I seriously doubt that would work, but might as well ask.

 

 

I think it would fill the mag, but I think you would wreck your gun and mags with using co2. Sorry buddy but why gbbr in cqb anyways? Aeg is much cheaper and effective at cqb, and it doesn't make you fell sick if you've been playing for a long time without proper vent. To be honest the best load out for cqb is an aeg for your primary and a gbb handgun for your secondary.

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turtle, I want a cheaper alternative. no point going for a more expensive alternative.

 

we are restricted to semi only.

 

trigger response is much better in a gbb than an AEG, which means you can put out a significantly larger volume of fire when needed. even with something like a DSG set up, you simply can't replicate the trigger response of a GBB.

 

only thing that matches a gbb is a polar star, and they are more expensive than the gbbr set up I run right now.

Edited by sniperx2s

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Then you have no alternative.

 

-Green gas IS propane so if you don't want to be dishonest by pulling a fast one over the people who are ripping you off in the first place then good for you.

-You can't use CO2 directly injected in a green gas/propane mag. That's sticking 800psi of pressure in a container that was designed to only hold 200.

-As said, alternative gasses do exist (usually from air conditioning shops as they're classes as refrigerants) but can only be economical if you set up a refilling rig yourself. The adapters to airsoft don't exist as they do for propane as the last rig I had built involved soldering a copper inlet pipe into an existing airsoft can. As for the savings, hfc22 cost something like $4-6 per kg of liquid propellant. Definitely something to consider as you've mentioned that you're actually using a GBB for primary.

 

edit:

$14 A CAN?!? jeez man, over here they sell them for $5. Maybe you could just bulk buy from a retailer somewhere, just whatever you do don't give those crooks your money.

Edited by renegadecow

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As for the savings, hfc22 cost something like $4-6 per kg of liquid propellant. Definitely something to consider as you've mentioned that you're actually using a GBB for primary.

 

that seems really cheap. does that require a refilling rig or something? I'm intrigued on the HFC22 option.

 

$14 A CAN?!? jeez man, over here they sell them for $5. Maybe you could just bulk buy from a retailer somewhere, just whatever you do don't give those crooks your money.

 

cheapest place I've found is airsplat at 8 dollars a can.

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Then you have no alternative.

 

-Green gas IS propane so if you don't want to be dishonest by pulling a fast one over the people who are ripping you off in the first place then good for you.

-You can't use CO2 directly injected in a green gas/propane mag. That's sticking 800psi of pressure in a container that was designed to only hold 200.

-As said, alternative gasses do exist (usually from air conditioning shops as they're classes as refrigerants) but can only be economical if you set up a refilling rig yourself. The adapters to airsoft don't exist as they do for propane as the last rig I had built involved soldering a copper inlet pipe into an existing airsoft can. As for the savings, hfc22 cost something like $4-6 per kg of liquid propellant. Definitely something to consider as you've mentioned that you're actually using a GBB for primary.

 

edit:

$14 A CAN?!? jeez man, over here they sell them for $5. Maybe you could just bulk buy from a retailer somewhere, just whatever you do don't give those crooks your money.

 

I remember AI used to sell an HFC22 adapter that would work with the cans you'd find in the auto parts aisle. You might be able to find one on Amazon.

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http://ecofreeez.com/EF-22_OW1H.html

 

interesting. its a environmentally friendly version of HCFC-22. PSI Ratings similar to propane.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Replacement-Substitu...;keywords=EF-22

 

155 dollars for a 30LB can.

 

I say, viable alternative found. Now, the only thing left is to find a way to get the gas from that unwieldy can into a handy container, and from that into a gun.

 

of which I have no idea.

 

Edit: Idea found.

 

 

Product: http://www.amazon.com/Mr-Heater-F276172-Pr...s=propane+valve

 

attach onto EF22 can, fill propane tank. Then comes to problem of convincing my field that I'm not actually using propane.

 

problem is that there is no valve on the EF22 can.

Edited by sniperx2s

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They are called Gas chargers.

 

They are mocked up to look like grenades.

 

sany0002.jpg

 

These items have been around for 8+ years and I ahve been using them for a long time.

 

Allows you to blend your own gas and to carry gas into the field.

 

sany0004.jpg

 

Regular large fill valve on bottom. Release valve under fake spoon.

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http://ecofreeez.com/EF-22_OW1H.html

interesting. its a environmentally friendly version of HCFC-22. PSI Ratings similar to propane.

When a new miracle product is marketed like that and are careful to leave no mention of what it is exactly, you can bet it's just a rebranded material that's already commercially available. So you won't have to go through the trouble of looking for the information yourself, that stuff IS propane. If you really want to stay away from propane I'd advise HFC22 which is the non-ozone depleting version of R22. And none of these gasses are technically environmentally friendly. They're all greenhouse gasses and contribute to global warming.

 

From their MSDS sheet:

"(Enviro-Safe™ Refrigerant contains a trade secret odor of 1% -5% unless otherwise noted.) "

LOL! Secret odor, sure. I betcha it smells like rotten eggs.

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Automotive or airconditioning shops. It's a refrigerant. Don't tell them you're gonna use it for airsoft though because technically it's illegal in the US to discharge refrigerants into the atmosphere. All refrigerants are supposed to be collected and recycled by appropriate facilities.

 

And that's why airsoft stores don't sell HFC22 anymore. They used to sell it in green gas style cans, but they can't really provide it anymore. I myself just use propane, so I'm fine.

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The can I usually buy is locally manufactured I think, but they're close in price to Top/Toy Jack/Arms/Aim Top etc. (Taiwan imported)

http://shop.ehobbyasia.com/accessories/gas...-gas-large.html

The only reason why any retailer would charge you so much for green gas (apart from greed) is they're not importing them in large enough quantities and have to make up for shipping costs.

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Nobody mentioned HFC134a, more commonly known as "duster gas." Depending on the weight of the components in the gun being moved, you can use canned air typically used to clean computers as propellant. I've used it in the past and use it in guns with more delicate parts (a-la most guns made in Japan) without any significant issue. Since I work for a major computer retailer I can usually get about 10 bottles or so for a little over $3, making it a good value. The stuff isn't even that expensive anyway, I can't remember what the regular retail is for it off the top of my head. I'm not sure how heavy the bolt for the LM4 is, but I have a hard time believing it would work since I wasn't ever able to effectively use it in any KSC/KWA gun I owned since they traditionally have heavy internals and stiff recoil springs.

 

Also, my local CQB arena doesn't allow propane either for the fact that if an inspector comes to visit the premises and smell propane, they can shut down the whole facility, possibly even permanently due to explosive or health hazards, regardless if it was being used in guns or not.

 

Propane is used so irresponsibly in airsoft in my opinion, so I have no problems at all for paying a little bit more for a bottle of GG.

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Propane is used so irresponsibly in airsoft in my opinion

 

I know I was just thinking about that today. It would be really cool if a company made a new product that made HPA easier to use.

 

Imagine you have an air compressor made specifically for filling mags or a container like the AI gas can. Maybe even something that would work like a Co2 12g cartridge that you could refill with this compressor. You could then put the cartridge into the mag just like the Co2 mags.

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Guest alberty
I know I was just thinking about that today. It would be really cool if a company made a new product that made HPA easier to use.

 

Imagine you have an air compressor made specifically for filling mags or a container like the AI gas can. Maybe even something that would work like a Co2 12g cartridge that you could refill with this compressor. You could then put the cartridge into the mag just like the Co2 mags.

 

That's kind of the idea behind current GBB magazine already. The green gas canisters fill the reservoir in the magazine. I think green gas is used instead of others because of the pressure and availability.

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I know I was just thinking about that today. It would be really cool if a company made a new product that made HPA easier to use.

 

Imagine you have an air compressor made specifically for filling mags or a container like the AI gas can. Maybe even something that would work like a Co2 12g cartridge that you could refill with this compressor. You could then put the cartridge into the mag just like the Co2 mags.

 

Unfortunately, due to the nature of the gasses being used this is unfeasible.

 

The gasses we use for airsoft are all special. Refrigerants [HFC134a] and Propane [Lumping in Green Gas. It's the same thing] when compressed at [relatively] low pressures become liquids. This means that the partial vapor pressure of the gas is always the same, as long as there's some left in the liquid state. Now, the reason that when you shoot too fast you lose efficiency isn't because you have less "gas" in the magazine. The curve of pressure vs. temperature is just fairly steep, and according to the universal gas law when you expel the gas the temperature drops. The pressure drops as well.

 

The pro of HPA, and CO2 to some extent is that they are regulated externally, so you can have a consistent pressure. The temperature doesn't affect the amount of pressure the gun's running at, leading to better shot to shot consistency.

 

HPA and CO2 act *very* different from Propane and refrigerants. At the pressure we compress air it does not turn into liquid nitrogen. Therefore, if you made an adapter to fill an airsoft magazine with pressured air, one of two things would happen. You'd blow the seals due to the extreme pressures [3000 PSI], or if you lowered the pressure to something acceptable [120 PSI], you would only get one or two shots off, with the second being dramatically underpowered. There is no liquid nitrogen left to evaporate and create higher pressure.

 

CO2 has a much higher vapor pressure than propane. At 22.4 C, CO2 is at roughly 900 PSI, 8 times greater than propane. You'd essentially blow up the magazine if you let liquid CO2 into the magazine. CO2 needs to be used with a regulator.

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Nobody mentioned HFC134a, more commonly known as "duster gas." Depending on the weight of the components in the gun being moved, you can use canned air typically used to clean computers as propellant. I've used it in the past and use it in guns with more delicate parts (a-la most guns made in Japan) without any significant issue. Since I work for a major computer retailer I can usually get about 10 bottles or so for a little over $3, making it a good value. The stuff isn't even that expensive anyway, I can't remember what the regular retail is for it off the top of my head. I'm not sure how heavy the bolt for the LM4 is, but I have a hard time believing it would work since I wasn't ever able to effectively use it in any KSC/KWA gun I owned since they traditionally have heavy internals and stiff recoil springs.

 

Also, my local CQB arena doesn't allow propane either for the fact that if an inspector comes to visit the premises and smell propane, they can shut down the whole facility, possibly even permanently due to explosive or health hazards, regardless if it was being used in guns or not.

 

Propane is used so irresponsibly in airsoft in my opinion, so I have no problems at all for paying a little bit more for a bottle of GG.

 

As for the bit on duster gas, I've also heard it's wonderful for some of those overpowered GNBB rifles, like various bolt action rifles, and that one odd lever action gun.

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