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turtletech

Opinions on gay Marriage?

Do you support Gay marriage?  

142 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you think it should be legal?

    • Yes
      84
    • No
      50
    • Civil Unions, not marriage.
      9


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I just thought it might be interesting to see what sort of views you have on the issue. I myself support it, and don't really see why it should be considered any differently than straight marriage. In my opinion, love is love, it isn't locked to one specific sexuality. But what are your opinions?

 

EDIT: For those opposed, it'd be nice to hear your reasoning for it. Not many have stepped up to that, and I'm honestly curious as to the reasoning.

Edited by DM Hackle
Edited swear filter to allow "gay"

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I believe that the best argument against it is that the definition of marriage is between "a man and a woman." The problem, of course, is that this definition is established by religion, and the establishment clause seems to prohibit the government from using that, since it discriminates against homosexuals.

 

All this nonsense about "the sanctity of marriage" is just a collection of emotional grasping at straws. By this logic, atheists, agnostics, and non-Christian/Catholic/etc people should not be allowed to get married. The church's definition of marriage doesn't have to change, and they don't have to perform marriage ceremonies for people they don't want to. We're simply talking about what the government will issue a marriage license for. I see a couple possible solutions:

 

1. Eliminate all benefits for married couples over single people. I'm sure this wouldn't be popular. Or:

 

2. Issue marriage licenses to anyone who wants one.

 

The second seems to be the easiest. But some people continue to appeal to tradition or history without realizing that they are selectively recognizing only their religion.

 

My personal opinion is that allowing homosexuals to marry does not violate anyone's rights, so there's no reason not to allow it.

Edited by Python890

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There would be no debate if people didn't say "IT IS UNHOLY, BE LIKE JESUS. HE MARRIED A WOMAN."

 

If it makes people happy, let them marry men, or let them marry women. What's the big deal?

 

Oh yeah, Jesus.

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Really? Are we really going there? Well heck let me start a firestorm.

 

Why do we live in a nation founded on religion that wants no part of religion? When humans are given too much free will anything is possible,whats next? Adults marrying kids? Animals? This should be fun.

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Really? Are we really going there? Well heck let me start a firestorm.

 

Why do we live in a nation founded on religion that wants no part of religion? When humans are given too much free will anything is possible,whats next? Adults marrying kids? Animals? This should be fun.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuum_fallacy

Edited by Python890

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Really? Are we really going there? Well heck let me start a firestorm.

 

Why do we live in a nation founded on religion that wants no part of religion? When humans are given too much free will anything is possible,whats next? Adults marrying kids? Animals? This should be fun.

 

Well there are cases of adults marrying minors in other countries, and I love my dog... But that stuff won't happen because they are completely different things.

Edited by Coyote98

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Are you really saying that because we allow two guys or two women to get married, that that will bring us to legalizing underage marriage and bestiality? Really, that just seems rather stupid to think that. There's a clear distinction, happy marriage is still between two people of the same species over the age of 18. It's not different, really. Can someone give me a logical reason why they think it shouldn't be in place? And don't quote the Bible, you're just grasping at straws there. Just because you think it's "weird" doesn't mean that you can deny civil rights to a group that is around 4% of the country. Doesn't sound like much? That's about the same amount as the percentage of Asian-Americans. So just think about that for a bit.

 

EDIT: By the way, why does the censor have to change G A Y to happy? Honestly, there are legitimate uses for the word.

Edited by turtletech

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As to quote Kurt Cobain:

 

"I'm not homosexual, but I wish I was, just to piss off homophobes."

 

 

But I really think people need to stop whining. It's a free country, and the country was based on people having their way and doing what they want.

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As to quote Kurt Cobain:

 

"I'm not homosexual, but I wish I was, just to piss off homophobes."

 

 

But I really think people need to stop whining. It's a free country, and the country was based on people having their way and doing what they want.

 

Yet you're the very one who was saying that we'd have bestiality and pedophilia legalized in short notice if G A Y marriage was legalized. You seem to be losing ground here. What side are you on?

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That's not what I meant, I was being sarcastic. I should probably start clearing myself up.

 

I'm on the side of homosexuals, I have nothing against them and they are normal people with different sexuality views.

 

I just edited my post so I don't confuse everybody, as fun as that would be.

Edited by Coyote98

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There's a clear distinction, happy marriage is still between two people of the same species over the age of 18. It's not different, really. Can someone give me a logical reason why they think it shouldn't be in place?

 

To play devils advocate... why only two?

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That's not what I meant, I was being sarcastic. I should probably start clearing myself up.

 

I'm on the side of homosexuals, I have nothing against them and they are normal people with different sexuality views.

 

I just edited my post so I don't confuse everybody, as fun as that would be.

 

Thank you for that. Your views are that of my own. And honestly, I don't get how they keep going against it, but they can only bring up the Bible. Well, here's something. Holy matrimony is religious, and defensible by the Bible. Marriage is a civil right and is secular. So that clears up that part of the debate, I hope.

 

Oh, also, I added a poll. That should make it a bit easier to tally up opinions.

Edited by turtletech

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They talk about the bible because it's the only thing they have going for them. I don't get why they don't deal with it. We don't tell them how to decorate the churches.

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They talk about the bible because it's the only thing they have going for them. I don't get why they don't deal with it. We don't tell them how to decorate the churches.

 

Yeah, that's the thing though. It's the only thing they have going for them although it has no legal backing and has only about five verses that even say anything against homosexuality. In addition, there are some verses which could be thought to be supporting someone loving whoever it is that they could love.

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I support homosexuals getting married.

 

They can be just as much an asset to society as any other heterosexual. Some have served our great nation whilst being discriminated against and paid the ultimate sacrifice. There are homosexual doctors, teachers, scientists, engineers, etc and etc that have made meaningful contributions and continue to do so. Not every homosexual is like that but neither is every hetero.

 

If it were made legal, it does not in any way mean that a bunch of flamboyant homosexuals will invade schools K through 12 and try to "turn" people.

It won't make gangsters, tweakers, and thugs any more common than they are now. More people won't "turn" homosexual.

 

 

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I support homosexuals getting married.

 

They can be just as much an asset to society as any other heterosexual. Some have served our great nation whilst being discriminated against and paid the ultimate sacrifice. There are homosexual doctors, teachers, scientists, engineers, etc and etc that have made meaningful contributions and continue to do so. Not every homosexual is like that but neither is every hetero.

 

If it were made legal, it does not in any way mean that a bunch of flamboyant homosexuals will invade schools K through 12 and try to "turn" people.

It won't make gangsters, tweakers, and thugs any more common than they are now. More people won't "turn" homosexual.

 

I always have loved that idea, that people can turn. It's either you are that way, or you aren't. By the way, while we're on this topic, it isn't always just completely happy people. People are more bisexual, as I have seen. It takes a little more for some than others, but in a way, most people are. But really, there are plenty of people who identify as bisexual as well. Not just homosexual or heterosexual. I just thought I'd point that out.

 

EDIT: Might I also ask for a bit of an explanation from those opposed on why they oppose it? I just would like to know the logic there. That's all. If you can try to make a logical argument about it, that'd be appreciated. Or at least say your reason, even if not making an argument about it.

 

EDIT PT2: Might I also mention that quite a few people I know are bisexual. One of my best friends is, but the relationship with her girlfriend didn't last too long, and three of my male friends are bi. It seems more common than I would expect.

Edited by turtletech

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Wonder if you guys would also support a Harvey milk day? Or if he got the same spotlight that MLK gets in schools today?

 

Cause once happy marriage passes, which in time it will they will want their history to be heard.

 

It's not really on the same level. It's an issue, but it is several magnitudes smaller of an issue than African-American civil rights. I don't suppose anyone will make too big of a deal of this in the future.

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My opinion on happy marriages is they don't exist. It's just two people faking affection so their friends and relatives don't see how empty and desperate their lives have beco- what? Oh. Same sex marriage. Stupid word filter. Yeah, of course. Why should they be deprived the exquisite agony heterosexuals are expected to endure for the majority of their adult lives?

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Here is your answer. In a world where people do what is right in their own eyes, the standard could be dropped below the dirt. G4y marriage is something created by man. And just like all things created by man there is a flaw that God can see, even when man cannot see it. Why does it matter if g4y people can marry or not?

 

How about this? F*ck marriage. Whats the point of being able to be labeled married or not? So that you can boast to your friends? At the point when we look and determine rules to live by through our own eyes rather than Gods, why does marriage have to even exist?

 

I can tell you one thing. There are a lot of celebrities that are signing on with all this g4y rights b*llsh*t to the point that it feels like there has been a change in the average American's eyes on the political topic of g4y rights/marriage. But the truth is, people have not changed their minds and it is the media who is making it look like they have.

 

Another good point is, just because I live in a country who fight to decide over g4y people being allowed to marry, doesn't mean that I have to be in a g4y marriage. Just because the country's laws change doesn't mean my God's laws are changing. At least with God I can count on the laws always being the same and never being confusing. It would be nice if they country was the same way.

 

tumblr_lvi22v8v6R1qc2oneo1_400.jpg

Edited by Hellion_Blade

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Damn...WeeGee beat me to it on the 'let homosexual couples be just as miserable as straight married couples' point.

 

I find it laughable that anyone would consider same-sex marriage leading to the destruction of the institution of marriage. Really? Kim Kardashian and Bristol Palin have done more damage to the institution of marriage by making impressionable people think it's okay to just divorce or call off a wedding like canceling a hair appointment. Too many marriages in the country lead to divorce involving couples that just weren't really thinking it through before they tied the knot (already 1 in 2 marriages end in divorce, but a portion of said divorces are the ones I'm referring to). Divorce has its place, but not as an easy way out because of a rushed marriage. My mother divorced my father when I was 4 because in the four years they were married he spiraled downward into substance abuse and became HEAVILY abusive towards my mother. To this day, my mother still tells me my father wasn't always a tweaking psycho. My great-grandmother on my mother's side is another exceptional case. She married a my biological great-grandfather but he also quickly became a jerk. She divorced him (and this was in the early 1950s, so she basically was frowned upon by her peers for divorcing in the first place) and then married a new man that she remained happily with for decades until he passed away a few years before she did.

 

Okay, sorry for the tangent. My point was that rushed marriages of people who didn't really think it through leading to early divorce have done more damage to the institution of marriage than same-sex marriages ever will.

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How about this? F*ck marriage. Whats the point of being able to be labeled married or not? So that you can boast to your friends? At the point when we look and determine rules to live by through our own eyes rather than Gods, why does marriage have to even exist?

 

 

Unfortunately marriage comes with a whole heaping handful of benefits. And as WeeGee pointed out , some drawbacks, but a ton of benefits. If you're denying gays the rights to those benefits you're supporting a fundamentally unequal society.

 

 

 

I would really like to hear more from the folks voting no... you must have such interesting opinions, you should share them...

Edited by Disco_Dante

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Unfortunately marriage comes with a whole heaping handful of benefits. And as WeeGee pointed out , some drawbacks, but a ton of benefits. If you're denying gays the rights to those benefits you're supporting a fundamentally unequal society.

 

 

 

I would really like to hear more from the folks voting no... you must have such interesting opinions, you should share them...

 

I've said the same thing several times already. So many people vocally support it, but few vocally oppose it. I'd like to see the logic there.

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How about this? F*ck marriage. Whats the point of being able to be labeled married or not? So that you can boast to your friends? At the point when we look and determine rules to live by through our own eyes rather than Gods, why does marriage have to even exist?

 

Tax benefits

Estate planning benefits

Government benefits (social security, medicare, disability, etc)

Employment benefits (insurance)

Medical benefits (visiting rights in hospitals, making medical decisions for an incapacitated spouse)

Death benefits

Family benefits (filing for joint adoption, etc)

Housing benefits

Consumer benefits (different "family" rates for certain insurance types, tuition discounts)

Legal benefits (ability to sue someone who killed your spouse by driving drunk)

 

There are a huge number of benefits that married couples enjoy. But none of these seem to have much in relation to the sexes of the married couple.

 

I can tell you one thing. There are a lot of celebrities that are signing on with all this g4y rights b*llsh*t to the point that it feels like there has been a change in the average American's eyes on the political topic of g4y rights/marriage. But the truth is, people have not changed their minds and it is the media who is making it look like they have.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_opinio...s#Polls_in_2013

 

Scroll down to see previous years. Gay marriage supporters have shifted from a minority to a majority in the past 5 years.

 

Another good point is, just because I live in a country who fight to decide over g4y people being allowed to marry, doesn't mean that I have to be in a g4y marriage. Just because the country's laws change doesn't mean my God's laws are changing. At least with God I can count on the laws always being the same and never being confusing. It would be nice if they country was the same way.

 

Not to get into a religious debate, but it's ironic that you say that. The bible is a mess of contradictions, and the passage almost everyone uses to address homosexuality of being a sin is in Leviticus, and there are multiple interpretations of that verse. One such interpretation is that only homosexual intercourse is a sin, but that has little to do with the government issuing a marriage license. And, conveniently, the other more outlandish Leviticus verses are ignored. Ignoring some verses, yet pedantically embracing others makes it difficult to argue that "God's laws" are always the same, especially when you consider how many times the bible has been translated- how much meaning and important semantics have been lost as a result of that? How can anyone be sure that, even if the Bible originated as God's word- that the modern Bible still is?

 

Edit: Is it just me, or is censoring the word "gay" almost as childish as those that use it as an insult? Come on now.

Edited by Python890

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I've said the same thing several times already. So many people vocally support it, but few vocally oppose it. I'd like to see the logic there.

I had a good repay for you but the internet ate it. Here's my attempt to reconstitute the "logic:"

 

It's a First Amendment issue. By legally recognizing homosexual marriage, the government would force religious institutions to go against their doctrine. This is not saying the government would force churches to marry homosexuals. It's an employee benefits thing. By giving the same benefits and pensions to married homosexual couples and organization like a religious hospital or university would be forced to go against it's own doctrine. That said, it's kind of a BS argument because the establishment clause is more about individual rights. Also, since many of those institutions, the ones that employ a LOT of people, like hospitals and universities either receive at least some public money or benefit from preferential tax laws... then they can STFU as far as I'm concerned.

 

Here is your answer. In a world where people do what is right in their own eyes, the standard could be dropped below the dirt. G4y marriage is something created by man. And just like all things created by man there is a flaw that God can see, even when man cannot see it. Why does it matter if g4y people can marry or not?

 

Marriage and morality have absolutely jack squat to do with each other. This is also not a case of, "Go ahead, do whatever you feel like." It's, "Go ahead, do whatever you feel like, it's not hurting anyone." I've met plenty of pious people who are jerks and plenty of atheists who are kind. Religion does not have a monopoly on morality.

 

Another good point is, just because I live in a country who fight to decide over g4y people being allowed to marry, doesn't mean that I have to be in a g4y marriage. Just because the country's laws change doesn't mean my God's laws are changing. At least with God I can count on the laws always being the same and never being confusing. It would be nice if they country was the same way.

 

Really? I haven't read you New Testament but my Talmud is really, really confusing. That said, the whole thing boils down to, "Treat you neighbor as you want him to treat you."

Edited by WeeGee

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WeeGee made a very good point there :a-laugh:

 

But do not go onto religious aspects. Most Christians will kill people to make sure they behold the power of God. I think all religious aspects should be taken away from this, THEN say why homosexuals shouldn't be allowed to get married. I dare you to think of ONE other reason.

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WeeGee made a very good point there :a-laugh:

 

But do not go onto religious aspects. Most Christians will kill people to make sure they behold the power of God. I think all religious aspects should be taken away from this, THEN say why homosexuals shouldn't be allowed to get married. I dare you to think of ONE other reason.

 

A bit off topic, but isn't that funny. We, humans that is, will kill each other over what we think happens when we die, and we can't seem to see the irony in that.

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A bit off topic, but isn't that funny. We, humans that is, will kill each other over what we think happens when we die, and we can't seem to see the irony in that.

 

:a-laugh: :a-laugh: That is why I gave up on humanity. I plan to meet Vader on the Death Star and blow Earth to pieces when I get the chance.

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Just because the country's laws change doesn't mean my God's laws are changing. At least with God I can count on the laws always being the same and never being confusing. It would be nice if they country was the same way.

 

I'd like to ask you something.

 

Have you ever:

-Eaten pork, shrimp, crab, catfish, squid, cheese with meat, whitebread for sandwiches, and/or used mayonnaise on your food?

-Worn anything made of polyester?

-Touched a football made with a real pigskin?

-Done ANY work on a Sunday?

-Let your hair grow long?

-Shaved?

-Allowed any piece of metal to come into contact with your face?

-Associated with any woman that was on their period?

 

If you answered 'yes' to any of these, you've violated God's law. Have a nice day.

Edited by Dmitri Kalashnikov
  • Upvote 1

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I'd like to ask you something.

 

Have you ever:

-Eaten pork, shrimp, crab, catfish, squid, cheese with meat, whitebread for sandwiches, and/or used mayonnaise on your food?

-Worn anything made of polyester?

-Touched a football made with a real pigskin?

-Done ANY work on a Sunday?

-Let your hair grow long?

-Shaved?

-Allowed any piece of metal to come into contact with your face?

-Associated with any woman that was on their period?

 

If you answered 'yes' to any of these, you've violated God's law. Have a nice day.

 

And what's even funnier is that that was from Leviticus, the Old Testament holiness code which both Jesus and Paul had basically told people to disregard. Hell, I know this and I'm an atheist.

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I'd like to ask you something.

 

Have you ever:

-Eaten pork, shrimp, crab, catfish, squid, cheese with meat, whitebread for sandwiches, and/or used mayonnaise on your food?

-Worn anything made of polyester?

-Touched a football made with a real pigskin?

-Done ANY work on a Sunday?

-Let your hair grow long?

-Shaved?

-Allowed any piece of metal to come into contact with your face?

-Associated with any woman that was on their period?

 

If you answered 'yes' to any of these, you've violated God's law. Have a nice day.

 

well your damn right I've violated Gods law, if I never violated his laws what would he need them for?

 

You've got to realize Christianity is the hardest god damn religion on this planet man. most other religions all rely on bettering yourself through yourself and your own power. easy enough to understand because you can see and feel yourself. But you don't really know that god is there, you have to do everything by faith and just believe that its not all bullsh*t. Not only that but to him one sin is as great as another! "Whats that? you decided not to give the homeless guy you passed by some of your change? thats as bad as rape and murder!"

 

It can all be very clear that whats wrong is wrong and whats right is right but it is impossible to do whats right everytime. therefore we are all destined to hell, the main reason Jesus died to wash away our sins. Its very strange, God created a people with the choice to do wrong or right but when they chose one of those choices they get a punishment. It is beyond my understanding.

 

On the topic of marriage though, if the country decides to support g4y marriage, it doesn't mean that I have to live that way. At least its one less sin I would be committing if I didn't support it.

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On the topic of marriage though, if the country decides to support g4y marriage, it doesn't mean that I have to live that way. At least its one less sin I would be committing if I didn't support it.

 

I don't understand this... how would it in any way affect the way you, or anyone else who isn't happy, lives?

 

 

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I don't understand this... how would it in any way affect the way you, or anyone else who isn't happy, lives?

 

Good question. It shouldn't. But it will. People are hasty. Even though many Christians know what they should do. That being turn the other cheek. The wont though. They will worry about the toothpick in everyone elses eye before the go for the log in their own. G4y ain't the Christian way and I'm sure many of them will try to do something about it. Maybe even resorting to violence just like the religious wars of the middle east.

 

They will say things like, "just because thats their view why does our country have to change?" Well just because its the Christian view why does same sex marriage have to be illegal? Because just as atheism is the truth, so is christianity, and mormon etc. The truth is in the eye of the beholder and since we are created in a way where we have choice, things like this will never come to an agreement.

 

Only by force can there be a law about certain things and the person with the most power wins this game. In this world power = money and to be christian is to give away all your worldly possessions so of course the things that oppose christianity by nature will rule over our land one day.

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And what's even funnier is that that was from Leviticus, the Old Testament holiness code which both Jesus and Paul had basically told people to disregard. Hell, I know this and I'm an atheist.

 

Actually, the decree that guys need to keep their hair short is in the New Testament too (and by Paul, no less). Along with the decree that women AREN'T supposed to have short hair or wear jewelry. But as a former Methodist I can attest to the fact that few women in the churches I went to ever took that seriously either.

 

The real question in SCOTUS hearing this case is whether or not marriage is a civil right, at least that seems to be the basic picture of the issue as I understand it. If it's declared as a civil right, my state (which has many in strong opposition to same sex marriage) would have to legalize it (which I'm all for). If it's declared that marriage in itself isn't a civil right, I BET YOU that places like California will push for legislation to not allow any marriage just to spite the opponents of same-sex marriage (in which I say good for them if they do attempt that).

 

And what I can't understand it WHY marriage is even being regarded as a Christian institution. The concept of matrimony existed long before Judaism ever came about and in numerous parts of the world. Hell, the Hindus were practicing the institution of marriage as the world's oldest organized faith over 5,000 years ago, and the Norse Pagans had their own rituals and religious laws on marriages just as early if not earlier.

Edited by Dmitri Kalashnikov

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As long as we're talking about historic marriage, another point that should be made is that gay marriage was allowed when the country was founded. Why? Because there was no such thing as a marriage license. It wasn't until the mid 19th century that marriage licenses came into existence, and what was their purpose? To deny interracial marriages. And now they're still around to deny gay marriages (in most states). Licensing people to marry is about as reasonable as licensing people to have kids. It's not a decision the government should (or has the authority to) be involved in.

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As long as we're talking about historic marriage, another point that should be made is that gay marriage was allowed when the country was founded. Why? Because there was no such thing as a marriage license. It wasn't until the mid 19th century that marriage licenses came into existence, and what was their purpose? To deny interracial marriages. And now they're still around to deny gay marriages (in most states). Licensing people to marry is about as reasonable as licensing people to have kids. It's not a decision the government should (or has the authority to) be involved in.

 

Interesting fact. I did not know this. But how does the country decide to change things without upsetting everyone? There would be too many people butthurt about all this if it were to just change.

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Interesting fact. I did not know this. But how does the country decide to change things without upsetting everyone? There would be too many people butthurt about all this if it were to just change.

 

Considering that the majority of the country seems to support gay marriage, I don't think everyone would be upset. In fact, I think that much of the opposition to gay marriage would subside if it were legal, solely because it wouldn't be a big deal. Right now it is a big deal, because people are being denied the ability to do it. Additionally, as time goes on, there are more and more people who are accepting of it because they grow up without the perception of needing to "preserve" marriage.

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Interesting fact. I did not know this. But how does the country decide to change things without upsetting everyone? There would be too many people butthurt about all this if it were to just change.

 

A lot of people got butthurt about women's sufferage, and racial desegregation. Some people still are. Most people got over it and realized it had to happen.

 

You've got to realize Christianity is the hardest god damn religion on this planet man. most other religions all rely on bettering yourself through yourself and your own power.

 

While I'm not one to mock the trials and tribulations of individual faith- I have not been in your shoes. You haven't been in mine either. Forgetting about the massive disparity in numbers of rues, languages needing to be learned, etc. Simply being part of a minority changes the dynamic incredibly. Even though overt persecution is rarely a factor in this country the trend towards easy and homogenous is a tough one to resist. So I find your statement pretty ignorant, and maybe a smidge offensive. Not that you should care particularly, no one has the right not to be offended. But if you keep making statements like that you will never convince anyone of anything except that you live in a bubble.

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