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Killem

KWA M16: Piston, TBB, and Hop-Up

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I'm scrapping my last thread because I've determined a DMR build would be difficult with the KWA. I still want to fix it though and at least put in a good barrel and hop-up system to improve it's performance. It performs well but I'd like a little more accuracy and range if I can manage it.

 

What do you all recommend for the piston, barrel, and hop-up?

 

Here's what I've gotten as recommendations so far:

 

Piston: SHS ("Azimuth") blue piston or the Lonex Red. I'd prefer to be able to order it from ASGI or Amazon if I have to because I'm already making orders there soon but I'm open to suggestions.

 

TBB: Prometheus and Madbull 6.03 barrels. What brand do you recommend? I've also heard I need to stabilize the inner barrel on a KWA. Do you all think it's needed? (I found this article on how to)

 

Hop-Up: I was told to get an R-Hop and an M-Nub thoughnI have no idea what those are. I'm going to do some of my own research, I was just curious what your suggestions are.

 

Any help is welcome.

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Hop-up is two piece...kwa proprietary,

 

Piston, what's wrong with it? The only thing I would switch on it would be the Piston head...Aluminum head? Give me a break KWA...

 

Barrel:

 

1. Prometheus if you have the money

2. Madbull far cheaper and the performance is pretty much the same for a standard build like yours. So go with this.

 

You don't really need to stablize a barrel especially on the KWA. Barrel stabilization helps but not in any way you are going to notice.

 

Unless you are building a high end DMR you won't notice any difference in stabilizing your barrel, I have tested it in various gun brands and builds. It only really makes a difference at extreme range.

You have an auto, you are throwing rounds down range, it doesn't matter.

 

 

R-Hop Flat-Hop whatever you want.

 

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Hop-up is two piece...kwa proprietary,

 

Piston, what's wrong with it? The only thing I would switch on it would be the Piston head...Aluminum head? Give me a break KWA...

 

Barrel:

 

1. Prometheus if you have the money

2. Madbull far cheaper and the performance is pretty much the same for a standard build like yours. So go with this.

 

You don't really need to stablize a barrel especially on the KWA. Barrel stabilization helps but not in any way you are going to notice.

 

Unless you are building a high end DMR you won't notice any difference in stabilizing your barrel, I have tested it in various gun brands and builds. It only really makes a difference at extreme range.

You have an auto, you are throwing rounds down range, it doesn't matter.

 

 

R-Hop Flat-Hop whatever you want.

 

For the record, the piston is stripped, which is why I have to open up the gun anyway.

 

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You don't really need to stablize a barrel especially on the KWA. Barrel stabilization helps but not in any way you are going to notice.

 

Unless you are building a high end DMR you won't notice any difference in stabilizing your barrel, I have tested it in various gun brands and builds. It only really makes a difference at extreme range.

You have an auto, you are throwing rounds down range, it doesn't matter.

 

 

I'm quite curious as to how you reached this conclusion since A) KWA's unusual fully floating inner barrel group is part of what causes the brand's accuracy problems and B) the effects are actually quite noticeable across quite a range of guns. Granted if you shoot .2s, and spray in full auto, you'll overcome it at close range but.....

 

Actually somewhat recently I did a thread on the subject. Because people, for whatever reason, tend not to believe experience in instances like this, I surveyed a few inner and outer barrels and then I rubbed a little math on it. The results may surprise you:

http://forums.airsoftmechanics.com/index.p...19339#msg119339

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I'm quite curious as to how you reached this conclusion since A) KWA's unusual fully floating inner barrel group is part of what causes the brand's accuracy problems and B) the effects are actually quite noticeable across quite a range of guns. Granted if you shoot .2s, and spray in full auto, you'll overcome it at close range but.....

 

Actually somewhat recently I did a thread on the subject. Because people, for whatever reason, tend not to believe experience in instances like this, I surveyed a few inner and outer barrels and then I rubbed a little math on it. The results may surprise you:

http://forums.airsoftmechanics.com/index.p...19339#msg119339

 

So you do recommend stabilizing the barrel? Do you think the teflon tape method would be best for this gun? Ex: http://www.airsoftforum.com/board/Barrel-S...ec-t221088.html

 

It is a fairly cheap "upgrade". It couldn't hurt.

 

 

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So you do recommend stabilizing the barrel? Do you think the teflon tape method would be best for this gun? Ex: http://www.airsoftforum.com/board/Barrel-S...ec-t221088.html

 

It is a fairly cheap "upgrade". It couldn't hurt.

 

Absolutely stabilize the barrel. As it has been stated, KWA's have a fully floating barrel which is not optimal for accuracy. At the very least put an o-ring in the front of the hop up chamber around the barrel to press the chamber against your gearbox and wrap the barrel in teflon tape. The optimal choice would be to install a barrel shim rather than teflon tape, but TT will work sufficiently.

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I have actually, with some amusement, been looking into barrel bedding with firearm bedding compounds. The thing is, if you bond the inner barrel to the outer barrel, suddenly essentially all of the functions of the hop retention clip become moot. Its vertical is defined by its wings, which mate with slots cut in the outer barrel, and its forward justification will be determined by its impacting the rear of the gearbox. You could then, rather easily actually, create a one-piece airsoft barrel with whatever bore you so choose. Perhaps at some point I should experiment and create a guide nobody will ever follow. :P

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Absolutely stabilize the barrel. As it has been stated, KWA's have a fully floating barrel which is not optimal for accuracy. At the very least put an o-ring in the front of the hop up chamber around the barrel to press the chamber against your gearbox and wrap the barrel in teflon tape. The optimal choice would be to install a barrel shim rather than teflon tape, but TT will work sufficiently.

Where can I get an O-Ring? Just amazon?

 

I have actually, with some amusement, been looking into barrel bedding with firearm bedding compounds. The thing is, if you bond the inner barrel to the outer barrel, suddenly essentially all of the functions of the hop retention clip become moot. Its vertical is defined by its wings, which mate with slots cut in the outer barrel, and its forward justification will be determined by its impacting the rear of the gearbox. You could then, rather easily actually, create a one-piece airsoft barrel with whatever bore you so choose. Perhaps at some point I should experiment and create a guide nobody will ever follow. :P

 

You should experiment. I would follow your guide. :P

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heh if you successfully bed the barrel, it would be a total b**** if the bucking rips XD

 

 

What would prevent you from just pulling it off and replacing it? As an aside, if you really want to have this discussion, we should probably do it elsewhere and not :pain: up this guy's thread. (sorry for already doing so)

 

 

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I'm scrapping my last thread because I've determined a DMR build would be difficult with the KWA. I still want to fix it though and at least put in a good barrel and hop-up system to improve it's performance. It performs well but I'd like a little more accuracy and range if I can manage it.

 

What do you all recommend for the piston, barrel, and hop-up?

 

Here's what I've gotten as recommendations so far:

 

Piston: SHS ("Azimuth") blue piston or the Lonex Red. I'd prefer to be able to order it from ASGI or Amazon if I have to because I'm already making orders there soon but I'm open to suggestions.

 

TBB: Prometheus and Madbull 6.03 barrels. What brand do you recommend? I've also heard I need to stabilize the inner barrel on a KWA. Do you all think it's needed? (I found this article on how to)

 

Hop-Up: I was told to get an R-Hop and an M-Nub thoughnI have no idea what those are. I'm going to do some of my own research, I was just curious what your suggestions are.

 

Any help is welcome.

DMR:

- Only scrap the DMR project if you are intending to keep and use Full-Auto.

DMR's are Semi-Auto only, and not capable of firing Full-Auto.

This requires a mod of the Selector Plate to dis-able Full-Auto.

There are other ways to do this as well, but the Selector Plate mod is the most common.

- KWA's are no more difficult than any other brand to build a DMR.

 

Simple approach for building a long range assault rifle:

- Work within your skill level.

Simple changes can yield great results and greatly improve performance.

 

- Barrel.

Your stock inner barrel is pretty good. You do not have to replace it.

There are better ways to spend your money if you are on a budget.

I would focus on other areas right now.

Get the most out of your stock inner barrel. See what it can do.

Focus on inner barrels later on.

 

Hop-up unit:

Your stock KWA Hop-up unit is quite good. You are fine there.

Always a good idea to have a second Hop-up Unit for learning how to dis-assemble the Hop-up Unit and practicing Hop-up mods.

 

- Bucking:You will need a good bucking.

Do Not use the stock KWA 2g bucking. It is horrible.

Save it and use it to learn to Flat-hop mod the bucking later on, if you do not know how already.

Bucking: My top three all time Drop-in Buckings.

1. Lonex 70°

2. G&G Green

3. Prommy Purple

Sometimes, you may need some 100% silicone oil applied in your Hop-up tube and on your bucking to insert the inner barrel with bucking attached. I have to use this with the Lonex 70°. This is not Silicone Spray you buy at the hardware store.

Most Hobby Shops carry it. It is known as Shock Oil. Get something around 30wt. This is what I use:

http://www.nitrohouse.com/product.asp?item...CFUlp7AodBnwAtw

 

- Piston:

Everybody has their favorite Piston.

These are mine that I have used or currently use in my KWA guns.

1. System SuperCore

http://www.airsoftgi.com/product_info.php?...roducts_id=4603

Simply awesome. Expensive, but worth it. They are cheaper on China websites.

I have two of them and they are both in use in my KWA guns right now.

Two and a half years later, barely have a mark on them. I have used these in multiple guns and set-ups.

2. ASGI PE POM Polycarb Piston.

http://www.airsoftgi.com/product_info.php?...roducts_id=5841

Supercore rebrand. It is built like a tank. I have this in use in my KWA High speed build and it is awesome.

3. Lonex Blue

http://www.airsoftgi.com/product_info.php?...oducts_id=12409

I have two if these and they are awesome.

 

- Piston Head:

Your stock Piston Head is fine.

A ported one would be better.

These are my favorite ported Piston Heads and are in use in my KWA guns right now.

Bravo Ported Aluminum Piston Head:

http://www.airsoftgi.com/product_info.php?...roducts_id=6240

Guarder Ported Polycarb Piston Head:

http://www.evike.com/product_info.php?cPat...oducts_id=26510

You can get these same piston heads for cheap, under a different name at http://clandestineairsoft.com/

 

- O-ring:

Definitely get a new Piston Head O-ring.

A Danco #14 pack of 8 is a couple of bucks at Home Depot and Lowes / Plumbing Department.

I prefer X-rings, but you will be fine with these O-rings.

 

- Cylinder:

A Type-O/Full Cylinder is what you need for your inner barrel.

It has no ports thus maximizing all the air volume in the Cylinder.

Here is one: http://www.evike.com/product_info.php?cPat...oducts_id=25869

Does not really matter what brand.

I have this one so I know it works well.

 

- Barrel Lock-down.

Definitely better to do this, but not necessary unless shooting past 300'.

I have no accuracy issues in my KWA guns with the Free Float inner barrel design at 300' and in.

 

Heavy bb's:

Use .30's as the mainstay of your ammo.

Anything less is just not accurate past 50 yards and using a Drop-in bucking.

A slight breeze will blow lighter bb's all over the place.

 

Hope this is helpful.

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When talking about a new piston I completely forgot to mention that my KWA is Pre-2GX. Does that change what piston I can use?

 

<AT>vanevery: Thank you! That is extremely helpful and I'm coping your post into a saved document now. I'm going to see what I can do to at least improve my KWA's performance even if it's not "technically" a DMR build. Thank you for the help!

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When talking about a new piston I completely forgot to mention that my KWA is Pre-2GX. Does that change what piston I can use?

 

It makes no difference.

There are some Pistons out there where their tooth rack is not cut wide enough to accommodate the beefy Sector Gear Teeth of KWA stock Sector Gears, Gen1 or Gen2.

I think this applies to the Lonex/Bravo Red Piston. Most Pistons out there will fit just fine.

All the ones I linked, I can vouch for.

Edited by vanevery

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It makes no difference.

There are some Pistons out there where their tooth rack is not cut wide enough to accommodate the beefy Sector Gear Teeth of KWA stock Sector Gears, Gen1 or Gen2.

I think this applies to the Lonex/Bravo Red Piston. Most Pistons out there will fit just fine.

All the ones I linked, I can vouch for.

 

Thank you. I'll look into those pistons.

 

EDIT: Should I upgrade the spring and then get a bore up cylinder? Or should the stock spring be fine?

Edited by Killem

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Thank you. I'll look into those pistons.

 

EDIT: Should I upgrade the spring and then get a bore up cylinder? Or should the stock spring be fine?

 

Bore-up:

I would avoid Bore-up kits.

You really do not gain any significant air volume to speak of.

Depending on whatever brand Bore-up kit you might buy, you may have serious feeding issues having to use the Bore-up Air Nozzle.

Just not worth all the possible problems involved, IMO.

 

Main Spring:

This is really your call.

I would base that decision on the FPS limits at the fields you usually play at and the fields you intend to play at.

Typically, most airsoft fields limit guns that shoot Full-Auto to somewhere between 400 and 450 FPS chrono'd using .20's.

The stock Main Springs in the KWA 2gx models are fine, but seem to lose their mojo faster than after-market springs.

Whatever Main Spring you choose, I suggest a Non-Linear/Irregular Pitch Spring for anything above an m120 Main Spring in your KWA gun.

Linear Springs m130 and up seem to always cause me issues with Piston Jams in my KWA guns.

 

 

 

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Bore-up:

I would avoid Bore-up kits.

You really do not gain any significant air volume to speak of.

Depending on whatever brand Bore-up kit you might buy, you may have serious feeding issues having to use the Bore-up Air Nozzle.

Just not worth all the possible problems involved, IMO.

 

Main Spring:

This is really your call.

I would base that decision on the FPS limits at the fields you usually play at and the fields you intend to play at.

Typically, most airsoft fields limit guns that shoot Full-Auto to somewhere between 400 and 450 FPS chrono'd using .20's.

The stock Main Springs in the KWA 2gx models are fine, but seem to lose their mojo faster than after-market springs.

Whatever Main Spring you choose, I suggest a Non-Linear/Irregular Pitch Spring for anything above an m120 Main Spring in your KWA gun.

Linear Springs m130 and up seem to always cause me issues with Piston Jams in my KWA guns.

Roger that. I think I'll just leave the stock spring in for now until I see a loss in FPS.

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Would this be a good cylinder to upgrade to? I can't find any Type 0's.

 

http://www.airsoftgi.com/product_info.php?products_id=9982

 

There are Type-O Cylinders out there for sale.

The one you linked might be one.

It is hard to tell by the description

Check around with more online vendors.

 

I don't personally like Cylinders with ribbed outer bodies, as with the one you linked, but it makes no difference performance wise.

I also don't think teflon coating really does anything as far as adding performance.

If anything, it might detract from performance over time. That is not to say don't buy one.

I bought a teflon coated Cylinder a couple years ago.

I think one of my O-rings tore inside of it, but that may have nothing to do with the teflon coating.

That O-ring came from a bad batch of O-rings I bought, but did not help my opinion of teflon coating.

The price on this Cylinder is a bit high, too.

 

If you have trouble finding a brand new Type-O Cylinder, place a Want to Buy add in the Buy, Sell, Trade section.

I, and am sure many others, have extra ones in the parts bin.

 

 

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