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Shutaro

The 'close combat' part of CQB

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How do you guys deal with the "hand-to-hand" combat part of CQB? Especially if you are alone or in a one-on-one situation? I'm talking about distances 15' and under, we don't actually use MER rules. Even at close range, it's just a matter of who is able to land the shot first.

 

I'm used to playing on a team where we use teamwork and team tactics to deal with close combat. But yesterday I was playing

alone on a small CQB field with people I didn't know. And while I can do okay at range (2-3 bunkers away), playing the front and hitting people cross-field, etc. I tend to get owned at close ranges (from the front) without any support.

 

I noticed a lot of times the successful players in one-on-one situations would just keep moving, trying to outflank or just surprise their opponent by appearing somewhere where they weren't expected. When two aggressive players were going against each other like this, it would often result in them pulling a full 180 or swapping sides. However often time they are willing to sacrifice cover in doing this, and one way to exploit these overly aggressive players is to try to bait them into rushing your position while another teammate shoots them when they are out in the open. Still I don't know that this was generally a winning strategy, it seems like defensive tactics won only about a third of the games (this was a small CQB field so there wasn't much time to prepare, set up defensive ambushes or anything like that.

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How do you guys deal with the "hand-to-hand" combat part of CQB? Especially if you are alone or in a one-on-one situation? I'm talking about distances 15' and under, we don't actually use MER rules. Even at close range, it's just a matter of who is able to land the shot first.

 

I'm used to playing on a team where we use teamwork and team tactics to deal with close combat. But yesterday I was playing

alone on a small CQB field with people I didn't know. And while I can do okay at range (2-3 bunkers away), playing the front and hitting people cross-field, etc. I tend to get owned at close ranges (from the front) without any support.

 

I noticed a lot of times the successful players in one-on-one situations would just keep moving, trying to outflank or just surprise their opponent by appearing somewhere where they weren't expected. When two aggressive players were going against each other like this, it would often result in them pulling a full 180 or swapping sides. However often time they are willing to sacrifice cover in doing this, and one way to exploit these overly aggressive players is to try to bait them into rushing your position while another teammate shoots them when they are out in the open. Still I don't know that this was generally a winning strategy, it seems like defensive tactics won only about a third of the games (this was a small CQB field so there wasn't much time to prepare, set up defensive ambushes or anything like that.

 

 

I ref on a CQB

nt . When there is just a few players I notice they always run around in a circle. I often play when there is just one kid in there wanting to play and it seems we do the flanking dance too. I think this is the way to get someone when they can't just run straight away from you.

 

 

 

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yup, people who move fast can be harder to hit. There are ways to take out fast players though.

It's not just about using your bag of tricks since you should also consider things that you can do to exploit opfor's mistakes.

 

An example would be to not loiter around areas with wide open spaces that are easily traversed. I notice that sometimes the faster players

stick to routes that are more open so they can maintain their speed.

 

Play more, experiment around, let us know what works bro.

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yup, people who move fast can be harder to hit. There are ways to take out fast players though.

It's not just about using your bag of tricks since you should also consider things that you can do to exploit opfor's mistakes.

 

An example would be to not loiter around areas with wide open spaces that are easily traversed. I notice that sometimes the faster players

stick to routes that are more open so they can maintain their speed.

 

Play more, experiment around, let us know what works bro.

Well I can move just as fast as the rest, in fact I did a successful flag run to tend the very first game we played (on a much larger field).

 

They like open spaces because it gives them room to maneuver. They're never running directly toward you, and never running in straight lines in an attempt to maximize passing cover or just not getting hit.

 

What I find is actually killer is the bunkers and screens that restrict your view considerably. Normally these are the ones I go for when I am with my team, because they give me the best cover and best angles if you get far enough up the field. But if you don't have that support, they're just deathtraps because you'll never see them coming until it's too late.

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Well I can move just as fast as the rest, in fact I did a successful flag run to tend the very first game we played (on a much larger field).

 

They like open spaces because it gives them room to maneuver. They're never running directly toward you, and never running in straight lines in an attempt to maximize passing cover or just not getting hit.

 

What I find is actually killer is the bunkers and screens that restrict your view considerably. Normally these are the ones I go for when I am with my team, because they give me the best cover and best angles if you get far enough up the field. But if you don't have that support, they're just deathtraps because you'll never see them coming until it's too late.

 

another thing is to consider not going near prominent landmarks and such if it attracts a lot of attention from opfor. It depends on specific circumstances and such. I'm sure with some more game time and critical thinking you'll find your own solutions to the challenges you face. We all do.

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another thing is to consider not going near prominent landmarks and such if it attracts a lot of attention from opfor. It depends on specific circumstances and such. I'm sure with some more game time and critical thinking you'll find your own solutions to the challenges you face. We all do.

Yeah I played again today in a small group and didn't do so bad. I got some close kills, near misses, and a few carries. So I think I'm at least getting the hang of it. When I first started airsoft I thought it was a game of cover, but now I realize that cover is secondary to most other things. It's more about 'game sense', perception, being aggressive, and, at least in a one-on-one situation, outmaneuvering your opponent before he outmaneuvers you. Never retreating because if you retreat, you die. Really, not much different than how I played paintball, except for the stealth factor.

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Also a big part of CQB is the gun. A Bad gun can mak a good player worse, but a good gun can't make a baad player better. Make sure you have a short gun (ofcourse) for cornering, and also allot of CQB is trigger response so get a speedy trigger responce (A good motor, mosfet, and gears all help in that department).

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Also a big part of CQB is the gun. A Bad gun can mak a good player worse, but a good gun can't make a baad player better. Make sure you have a short gun (ofcourse) for cornering, and also allot of CQB is trigger response so get a speedy trigger responce (A good motor, mosfet, and gears all help in that department).

Sunstar I used to think the gun didn't really matter, but then I played on a different type of CQB field. So I think it depends really. Some fields the insides of the buildings are simply deathtraps, others the insides are vital to controlling the field. Some fields you want to stay at least a few yards away from the buildings to move quickly and minimize blind spots, others you need to get very close to the buildings in order to minimize the angles and stay alive. Our best infiltrator was actually just using a pistol and grenades. Even a sword (think of it as a really long knife) can make sense for maze-like corridors that have lots of twists and turns. And even if it's advantageous to be inside the buildings, not everyone needs to be an infiltrator or rush around inside the buildings, plus you want people on the outside too. So I think there's still a place for all types of guns in the CQB environment, it's just a matter of finding a role that works.

Edited by Shutaro

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Have you every played COD multiplayer, Stirke Force etc? After a while you will notice each player creates a pattern, including yourself. An area that they like to be, and areas they refrain from going, sides he/she prefers because of been left or right handed. CQB is a mix of luck and momentum, I have learned to pace myself and not let the adrenaline rush guide me on whats need to be done. I gear up pretty well as where we play there is no minimum engage distance and fps is in the 400, so its allowed to get shot point blank, of course barrel tapping is encouraged just be careful its not seen as physically attacking someone with the aeg. Some tools I highly recommend, a red dot and/or a tactical light, players get used to the red dot, or the flash light, so using them sporadically creates some confusion.

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From Wikipedia:

 

Violence of Action -

 

For the dynamic entry team, gaining and maintaining physical and psychological momentum is essential. The team may breach doors, blast holes in walls, enter through windows, or rappel or fast-rope from helicopters. Vehicle-mounted rams and platforms may be used to create unexpected entry points. The sensory onslaught from tear gas, explosive breaching, flashbangs, and gunfire is complemented by the intimidating and aggressive actions of the assault team. Hostiles do sometimes hide among the hostages, so once the shooting has stopped, operators must maintain dominance over anyone still alive.

 

From Spartan Cops:

 

Violence of Action -

 

Explained in detail, “Violence of Action”, means employing the force justified correctly, instantly, and with full impact. It also means transitioning between and coupling together force responses to achieve the goal – custodial arrest.

 

***

 

IMO momentum is key. One can learn a lot by playing console or PC on CQB environments. Another thing besides red dot and flash light, is the always faithful grenade, jeje. Do the typical Thunder B mods so the opponent does not have enough time to escape, throw back, or push the grenade. Not all the time should one proceed ahead, as thats what is expected, stay back, time yourself. Its similar to basketball which is the same mentality, players will tend to use similar paths although it is not very noticeable at the beginning, football, etc. One has to change the game as to prevent been predictable. Don't stress it out too much, go gear up and have some fun.

Edited by Cktein

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I have to agree with 'violence of action', in general.

Being able to move or maneuver in sync, and operate as a team rather than individuals.

 

But I think this is mostly for police and enforcement action. I've been in other situations where we just defend, and if we are disciplined and defend well, we win. The best teams I've been in operate in these two different modes (defending and attacking), and can switch when necessary.

 

I think 'momentum' is highly psychological, not as strong in airsoft as in irl. In airsoft, far more players will gladly sacrifice themselves for some greater goal (an important objective, getting several kills, holding ground) than irl. If you are three defending and you see twelve people rushing in, the thought isn't "let's try to pull back and live" but "let's see how many of them we can take with us".

 

Grenades can be nice, but it depends greatly on the person using it. Last time we played, our adversaries lost two games because of poor grenade use. One misplaced grenade can cost you the game, one misplaced bullet will most likely not.

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I'm still a FNG on this board but, in this particular area, I feel pretty confident in posting. Speed, Surprise and Violence of Action are the three keys to a successful CQB operation unless, you're conducting a deliberate entry. Since, in Airsoft, they always know that you're coming, deliberate entry is your best method. In this case, it's Speed, STEALTH and Violence of Action. Also remember, it's not necessarily about doing things fast when you think of Speed. "Slow is fast." When you think of Speed, you should be considering several factors; are you playing a realmil game where you might have a hostage situation, is the operation being timed as some realmils are and finally, what's your true objective, a massive bodycount on both sides or are you playing "for real"? I AM a newcomer to Airsoft but, I've been mentoring in CQB since '88. :a-cool:

Edited by tacticalguy

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I'm still a FNG on this board but, in this particular area, I feel pretty confident in posting. Speed, Surprise and Violence of Action are the three keys to a successful CQB operation unless, you're conducting a deliberate entry. Since, in Airsoft, they always know that you're coming, deliberate entry is your best method. In this case, it's Speed, STEALTH and Violence of Action. Also remember, it's not necessarily about doing things fast when you think of Speed. "Slow is fast." When you think of Speed, you should be considering several factors; are you playing a realmil game where you might have a hostage situation, is the operation being timed as some realmils are and finally, what's your true objective, a massive bodycount on both sides or are you playing "for real"? I AM a newcomer to Airsoft but, I've been mentoring in CQB since '88. :a-cool:

 

Hey, that's really cool. I take it your background is in Law Enforcement?

 

This seems to be very congruent with my own experiences at least. While surprise sometimes still seems to work (people don't always expect you to pop out when and where you do, ambushes outdoors definitely can work) a person with a fast reaction time will make quick work of even decently-skilled players entering with an excess of presence, and noise. I can't tell you how many players I've shot out by visual or audible dead giveaways to their presence, yet a single guy gliding around like a ninja made quick work of the clamorous people bumbling through the room. In a bit of contrary logic here, I've actually observed excessive use of grenades (to clear rooms ahead of a team advancing linearly through a circuit of hallways) to actually completely give away the attackers and make them easier to pick out. They utilized no real stealth techniques, yelled too much and generally made a ruckus that gave them away and made them easier to shoot. These same people regarded themselves as milsim, and seemed to view themselves highly vs. the "regular" players on site; but myself and my admittedly ghetto friend, who had next to no gear and was wearing shorts, dished out a ratio of kills many times our own number simply because the tactical guys were stampeding, and we were slithering around.

 

As for myself, I play like I intend to survive (not necessarily play to win mentality), as it seems to sharpen my instincts. I don't usually take the sort of risks a lot of the speedy CQB "rush, kill, die, repeat" people do. Instead I usually end up being the guy who survives and makes it where he's going, even if he doesn't mow down three people every maneuver.

Edited by ZeroNite

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Hey, that's really cool. I take it your background is in Law Enforcement?

 

This seems to be very congruent with my own experiences at least. While surprise sometimes still seems to work (people don't always expect you to pop out when and where you do, ambushes outdoors definitely can work) a person with a fast reaction time will make quick work of even decently-skilled players entering with an excess of presence, and noise. I can't tell you how many players I've shot out by visual or audible dead giveaways to their presence, yet a single guy gliding around like a ninja made quick work of the clamorous people bumbling through the room. In a bit of contrary logic here, I've actually observed excessive use of grenades (to clear rooms ahead of a team advancing linearly through a circuit of hallways) to actually completely give away the attackers and make them easier to pick out. They utilized no real stealth techniques, yelled too much and generally made a ruckus that gave them away and made them easier to shoot. These same people regarded themselves as milsim, and seemed to view themselves highly vs. the "regular" players on site; but myself and my admittedly ghetto friend, who had next to no gear and was wearing shorts, dished out a ratio of kills many times our own number simply because the tactical guys were stampeding, and we were slithering around.

 

As for myself, I play like I intend to survive (not necessarily play to win mentality), as it seems to sharpen my instincts. I don't usually take the sort of risks a lot of the speedy CQB "rush, kill, die, repeat" people do. Instead I usually end up being the guy who survives and makes it where he's going, even if he doesn't mow down three people every maneuver.

I'm not, nor have I ever been LE, I'm a military veteran, though. I HAVE spent a lot of time training LE tactical units in many countries around the world. Your observations are correct about some people and their take on CQB. I advocate the use of grenades SPARINGLY. There are times for lots of noise and confusion. My team shouldn't be the one suffering from it, though. The longer that I can move about without the "enemy" having a lock on my location, the better for me. That's always been what I've taught, generally.

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Zero experience in airsoft.

 

I think it would be hard to replicate real-word CQB / CQC tactics, as they are built around minimum numbers of people. In fact, you may have heard the term 'active shooter'. That entire concept came about because the public felt like we were doo-dahhing around instead of immediately rushing in and solving the problem.

 

It was because the training required a minimum number of assaulters and other element members to do certain things. It was beat into your head that you were stupid or 'John Wayne' to just go into anything by yourself.

 

Plus, in most Blue operations, we operate from a position of strength. We have the area sealed up. There will be no more reinforcements for the Bad Guys. We can move deliberately, take an hour to slowly, methodically clear and secure each parcel of real estate.

It doesn't appear you can do that on an airsoft field. Especially if all you have is 4-10 people. And, it doesn't appear you can truly suppress the high grounds. So, if we hit an apartment complex, we don't have to worry about being popped from a rooftop. We do a warehouse, we don't have to worry about someone snarfing us from an adjacent building.

 

So, you probably need to cede some tactics to the realities of the game. Try to get at least a partner. Special Forces would try to recruit an entire team! lol If you try to defend a position, I think you'd attract shooters. Maybe adopt a hunter / killer role set? I wouldn't personally suggest using knives or any other contact gameplay unless I knew everyone was cool with it.

 

S1A

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Yeah there are different types of CQB type situations, most players just lump it all together b'cos it's based on a semantic and a specific type of field design.

 

I thought "active shooter" came out of columbine, since then law enforcement has taken a more proactive and engaging tactic (often times just 'rushing in' and trying to locate and engage the shooter) when the lives of innocents are at risk.

 

Every field is different, I play at one field occassionally where they do have some limited 'high grounds', buildings w/o roofs that you can climb up and shoot from. Also I play on hybrid CQB fields where you do have, for instance, a hill overlooking a village. Both are fortified and easier to defend than attack, but in airsoft, the hill offers an even larger advantage than in reality.

 

Overall I still break CQB fields into two different groups, 'tight' fields where you want to hug the walls and they favor a good defense, and 'loose' fields where the angles aren't as deadly and you can stay farther back from the walls and try to be offensive, maneuver, or play a momentum game.

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On 12/30/2014 at 8:56 PM, creepblitz said:

Would it be accurate to suggest:

 

1.aim in front of a moving target.

2. aim for torso

3. move opposite direction as target(but still forward)

???

I agree with the first two but on the third I would suggest that if you have a good idea of where they're going and your goal is to kill them to move to put them to your left around some cover. This should generally force them to left shoulder to pie slice more effectively which is generally going to reduce a persons effectiveness. There's definitely scenarios where this isn't advised such as the cover of the position that would put them to your right being more favorable if you feel comfortable shouldering left. Also, if a person is sprinting taking a couple of shots while they're out of cover is really good but I wouldn't spend the entire amount of that time firing at them. They'll most likely be looking at where they're running more than anywhere so if you cement the idea that you're somewhere by shooting at them but then move while they're still positioning and manage to be out of sight once they check again they'll act on faulty information while yours will be more accurate.

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