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Tai28

American pride.

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Hey everyone, this is going to be quite to the long rant, will post a tdlr at the bottom for those not patriotic enough to read this.

So me, coming from a background of paintball and real guns, one thing I always appreciated was good craftmanship made in the usa products. In both paintball and the real gun market, almost all products are made in the usa, and is pretty much an industry standard, I personally would pay the extra amounts of money it takes to buy american things. My whole point here is PEOPLE WHO LIKE GUNS TAKE PRIDE IN THEM. Shotty craftmanship of oversea products is terrible and embarassing, and it seems that airsoft is the one gun related market that is saturated in disgusting quality oversea crap. Sure you can make a cheap product overseas, but its just not worth it. Airsoft is plagued by poor standards, people always need upgrades to make their gun "worthy" of battle and to be reliable, when a product should come to you reliable out of the box and not break due to crappy standards.

Recently I was looking to pick up a GBB rifle, and it seems very few are actually decent quality, and it puts airsoft to shame seeing how many products are not well crafted peices of art. Every gun should be an artpeice, an example of quality like none other. Its just the way guns should be, people have always endorsed american products and high quality things that should make you feel PROUD of what you own. Airsoft in general needs to clean its act up and produce better, more high quality products. This to me is not overdone, yes I realize hos many times I say quality and craftmanship, but the degradingly low standards are just disgusting, some companies should be ashamed of themselves for not trying to invoke the american pride in fellow airsoft gun owners!

I also commend those companies who do spend the extra money to manufacture in america, companies should really take pride in what they make, nobody wants to put their name behind shotty products! And you! The consumer, I realize everybody's got a budget, but having an solid american gun in your hands gives you the feels. You yourself should take more pride in what you buy, spend that extra 50$ on the american peice, your a patriot, you should support those companies who venture to economically challenge themselves by staying in what seems to be a dying american manufacturing buisness! Thanks for reading, Hope you consider this in the future.

 

Tdlr: BUY AMERICAN, airsoft is creeping into the valley of shotty scrap products!

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I'm not even sure... There are no American made airsoft guns. The whole sport is Japanese based I believe...

 

I am American, but some things I should point out.

 

For one thing Japan is having amazing concepts and is a very technological place. Chances are the computer/phone you used to post that is Japanese. Lots of people buy Japanese cars because they maintain value.

 

On the same thing not all amazing firearms are American; German and Russian guns are so very amazing it's hard to comprehend.

 

Your rant is wrong in a lot of ways when you think about it. Also the grammar is... ugh.

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1. Airsoft itself is an import. The hobby originated overseas, therefore the original manufacturers are from overseas.

 

2. As high minded and patriotic as, "Buy American" is, most people are unwilling or unable to shell out the money for such products. (Ergo, the rise of Chinese clone manufacturers.) The gear market is a good example. There are a lot of high quality 100% American made gear makers however in both airsoft and with real guns, most people will go with quality that is good enough for immediate use, and cheap enough to be replaceable. (There are few things I chuckle at more than people who profess their patriotism and then show up to a real steel shooting event Mall Ninja'd out with cheap chinese tac gear.)

 

3. If every gun is an individual work of art then the customer loses. They lose standardization of parts, the ability to do their own work on the product and will end up paying significantly more. Again to reference real firearms, a fine bespoke rifle made by a British firm which I would call a work of art without any reservation is $10,000-$20,000 on the low end. A surplus Lee Enfield that looks pretty nice will be a few hundred buck in excellent condition. If you want an airsoft gun that is a work of art, there are people out there who will do custom work. Or for a truly unique piece, DIY. Otherwise, the economics don't make sense.

 

4. "Piece," not "peice." "You're," not "your." "Shoddy," not "shotty-" unless your're talking about a shotgun. And, always, ALWAYS, capitalize, "American."

 

I don't disagree with a lot of what you say. Quality control is pretty lousy throughout this hobby, and it would be nice to have more options for US made products. Perhaps with the growth of 3D printing we may see that become more affordable. However as it stands now, tooling up a manufacturing company to support a niche hobby where most users are on the thrifty side of things is a pretty big risk, and not something most people are willing to do in any economy, let alone this one.

 

As I touched on in #2, there are a lot of quality American gear manufacturers. If you are looking to support American business in this hobby I recommend starting there.

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Buy American, like what, Echo 1? LOL! The only thing worse than a shoddy product is a shoddy product which has been renamed several times over. That's pretty much the only thing they do in the good ol' USA nowadays. Also most real guns are made or assembled in USA due to standing importation laws. If there wasn't any everyone would be buying Norinco like they do in Canada.

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Look up on your Smartphone, one company that makes an airsoft gun in the us...by making, I mean all the parts in the US and not just "final" assembly.

 

Now look at the Smartphone again and wonder why you are holding that smartphone.

Edited by Guges Mk3

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The main thing is price, for the prices people are willing to pay, it's just not possible to compete with the foreign manufacturers / importers.

As much as I'd love to have an equivalent of my Tippmann 98 paintball gun in airsoft, it's just not going to happen, there's not enough of a market for it. Overall if you look at the average player, they would rather have several less reliable and cheaper guns than only one or two reliable guns.

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Not true, I only have a few guns. And the ones that suck I get rid of. I literally have two loadouts, each have very reliable guns(when I don't experiment with them).

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Huh? Let's step outside of the realm of airsoft for a second, almost every company employs foreigners to mass produce their products and charge us a buttload for one simple reason, they pocket more of the profit. This alone encompasses the American dream nowadays, so get off you're America is god high horse. And guns? No other country loves its guns more than America and guns originated and were "perfected" in the good ol us of a. Airsoft did not, it was created by the Japanese so really we have them to thank for it.

 

Back to airsoft, the best gbbr you can buy is inokotsu. How many inos do you see? Less than 1% because it's a $1000 gbbr used!! why do you think great techs build their own guns and ask them which products they trust and use. Many if the American companies, echo1, for instance oem and rebrand China guns. The whole basis of your rant is backwards, the China products are just as good if not better, but above all, they are cheaper.

 

I really can't believe we are having this type of discussion on an airsoft website. This topic needs to be removed, it has no basis nor merit that enhances airsoft or educates the community in anyway. Op, I hope you learned something.

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Not true, I only have a few guns. And the ones that suck I get rid of. I literally have two loadouts, each have very reliable guns(when I don't experiment with them).

Coyote98, I have only 2 loadouts also, one of which is rarely used, but I realize I'm not the typical player.

Most of my friends or others I play with have at least 5+ guns, and some have close to 10. Things like the evike "box of awesomness" and the "mystery gun" sales add to this, a lot of players always have their eyes on something new. The lifecycle of a gun is something akin to 'flavor of the month' that you sometimes see in other hobbies.

 

I understand that owning a lot guns can make up the unreliability of each, it is one way to deal with failure. Just as a RAID array built from many inferior hard disks can be superior to a single more expensive enterprise-level hard disk. But it's just not me, I don't get much joy irl from collecting more things than I need.

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not bad at trolling if you ask me.

 

Buying American is not a huge player when it comes to being a patriotic American.

Some things can be bought American and some can't. I'd rather associate with the person that serves the community and nation in some capacity

than someone else that just "buys American"

 

oh dang you trolled me too

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Im not seeing how what the OP says is trolling? It's true that America doesn't have a good airsoft gun producer. (Isn't Cybergun the only ones? and we know how those are)

 

But I think the OP also has unrealistic expectations. $50 more for American made airsoft guns? I'm afraid it would be quite a bit more than that. You have to look at what our manufacturing cost is, and specifically where "American made" airsoft will get killed is labor cost. A quick search shows that China's minimum wage is $1.20 compared to the U.S. $7.25. That is a 6x increase. Now I am not familiar with how product price changes with labor cost, but if we assumed it increased by the same factor, that would mean that your China made JG M4 that cost $150 would likely cost around $900 if it were made in the U.S.

 

Now, it would be likely that the U.S. would have higher quality control (better material choices, good shimming, corrected AoE), but still, $900 for a toy is a lot for most airsofters. And that doesn't even account for modifications and external changes like rails, stocks, MBK's and the such.

 

Guns may be a very American passion/right/production, but airsoft originated in Japan (I believe paintball originated in America), so it's natural that the guns were first produced over there and steadily grew until it reached the U.S. They have a significant head start on any American venture. I believe even PTS, which was a joint venture with Magpul, was based overseas.

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Im not seeing how what the OP says is trolling? It's true that America doesn't have a good airsoft gun producer. (Isn't Cybergun the only ones? and we know how those are)

 

Cybergun is French and that explains a lot...

Edited by Guges Mk3

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Didn't see it. But at a guess I'd say their angle is how the US purposefully turned a blind eye over an immanent threat to justify starting (a) war. And we all know that wars are highly profitable not to mention give emergency powers to big wigs.

 

It has worked in the past...why not now?

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It would actually come out to about $399. for an entry level gun to build it in America, when you consider distribution and retailer markups (for each case). While Chinese labor is cheaper, American labor is more productive per unit time, especially when you losses due to poor quality control and misassembly. As for quality, you have to start with the basics, the quality of the steel and the polymer, the conditions under which things are built, etc. The crux of the problem is not being able to hit the $99 to $199 price point that most are willing to pay for the entry-level gun, unless they sold it direct, they might in theory be able to reach a $199. price point but not in reality because the volume would be very limited.

 

As for the 9/11 thing, it's mostly just a relic of the cold war. Roughly 30 years ago, when russia invaded afghanistan, we helped to equip and train some of the very same islamists who then turned to terrorism and went on to attack America.

 

Of course like any other event there are plenty of conspiracy theories that were born on or after 9/11.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/9/11_conspiracy_theories

Too many to count, go figure.

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I'm to the point unless you are talking about something like the people who worked through 9/11, I will drown out what you say. Because it's the American thing to do. Then I go all Hatfield-McCoy on your family.

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The crux of the problem is not being able to hit the $99 to $199 price point that most are willing to pay for the entry-level gun, unless they sold it direct, they might in theory be able to reach a $199. price point but not in reality because the volume would be very limited.

The way I see it is they shouldn't even look at making entry level products. Take that CZ Evo Scorpion made in Denmark. It boasts to be the first EU made gun and knowing that will cost a lot they decided to make a top shelf product: mosfet equipped, round counting PTW features. Not saying they should make PTWs necessarily (could be a polarstar or gbb depending on their market research) but they should offer something more than what's already available in the cheap chinese market.

 

That or ban importation of chinese goods like what they do to Norinco.

 

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Without entry level guns airsoft would not grow. The sport in itself would not be as popular as it is today.

 

Sorry, I fail to see that as an entirely bad thing. Airsoft was growing steadily prior to the influx of cheap guns. While the cheaper stuff made for exponential growth I'm not convinced that's good for the hobby. Sure the hobby's bigger now, but with that higher profile comes being a bigger target for people like DeLeon and more irresponsible players that make his job easier.

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The way I see it is they shouldn't even look at making entry level products. Take that CZ Evo Scorpion made in Denmark. It boasts to be the first EU made gun and knowing that will cost a lot they decided to make a top shelf product: mosfet equipped, round counting PTW features. Not saying they should make PTWs necessarily (could be a polarstar or gbb depending on their market research) but they should offer something more than what's already available in the cheap chinese market.

 

That or ban importation of chinese goods like what they do to Norinco.

 

 

Interesting. I seem to recall a teaser video of a GBBR Vz.58 touted as being made in the EU (most likely the Czechs were developing them). Plus we have Izhmash making Russian-built AKs and (later on) AN-94s.

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That's what guns made in china are for. You're saying you want a barely passable gun of the same china quality for 3x the price just because it says "made in USA" on it?

 

 

There are times when patriotism goes too far. That is such an example.

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Growth for airsoft is not good? Paintball dominated the recreational shooting scene until recently. You think airsoft would still be the same if entry level guns costs $300?? The fields you go to are filled with kids, kids keep those fields open and most parents are not going to spend $300 plus whatever necessitities he needs to play. So yes, I think cheap entry level guns help airsoft. Otherwise we'd be stuck with Wal-Martguns and big five guns.

 

And those incidents with kids getting shot would still happen and luckily because the sport has grown so large and china has created so much income for businesses we were able to defeat sb98 and the ones before it. We will also beat if not hve them modify sb 199 because there is such a huge outspoken community. 1000 voices is nothing compared to 100,000. So be thankful.

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Growth for airsoft is not good? Paintball dominated the recreational shooting scene until recently. You think airsoft would still be the same if entry level guns costs $300?? The fields you go to are filled with kids, kids keep those fields open and most parents are not going to spend $300 plus whatever necessitities he needs to play. So yes, I think cheap entry level guns help airsoft. Otherwise we'd be stuck with Wal-Martguns and big five guns.

 

And those incidents with kids getting shot would still happen and luckily because the sport has grown so large and china has created so much income for businesses we were able to defeat sb98 and the ones before it. We will also beat if not hve them modify sb 199 because there is such a huge outspoken community. 1000 voices is nothing compared to 100,000. So be thankful.

Regarding legislative measures, we would not have seen sb98, sb199, etc. if airsoft was not on the politician's radar to begin with. They only know about it because it has gotten big enough that airsoft guns are ending up in the hands of children being treated as toys.

 

Outside of the legislative reasons that someone else already cited, paintball is a good example of why growth is not always a good thing or beneficial for the sport/hobby/activity in the long term. From a consumer perspective, a growing industry is a good one; ie. businesses invest capital to gain market share, heavy competition, and money flows in from different sources (sponsorship, tournament prizes, endorsements, etc.) But the reverse is always true, in a shrinking industry, businesses are loathe to invest any capital, consolidation, and money sources dry up. So in this perspective, growth is a good thing, but only if it is sustainable growth. You always have to think about what is best 3-5 years out.

 

When I used 'entry level' in my above post, I mean performance. If you know paintball guns, a Tippmann 98 is entry level, but it's also rock solid reliable and durable. That's what I'd hope a good American manufactured airsoft gun would be for around $399. Only around 10fps, and not the most accurate; but able to go through 100,000 bb's without having to replace more than a few inexpensive parts.

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Growth for airsoft is not good? Paintball dominated the recreational shooting scene until recently. You think airsoft would still be the same if entry level guns costs $300?? The fields you go to are filled with kids, kids keep those fields open and most parents are not going to spend $300 plus whatever necessitities he needs to play. So yes, I think cheap entry level guns help airsoft. Otherwise we'd be stuck with Wal-Martguns and big five guns.

You sound like people never bought Tokyo Marui, JAC, Kokusai, MGC or any of the older brands in the 90s. And as far as I can tell, airsoft has superseded paintball in terms of sales at least a decade ago. The exposure to the average, non-playing person was the one that has been slow to become widespread thanks to dumb kids with no common sense. And what does that have to do about guns being made in the USA?

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If product "USA" was CNC milled aluminum selling for $10 which took hours of machining work was selling against a clone product "ACM" which sold for $9.00 which was made of Pot Metal which took minutes to cast.

 

The American customer will buy "ACM" to save $1

Edited by silentball

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