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Dusti69

Improving Snow Wolf M82 performance

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I have a snow wolf m82. I have completely replaced 100% of its internals. its just been sitting around for quite some time now needing improvement

 

it has a gb shell with reinforcement similar to a kwa 2gx and is filled with nice dream army parts. it has perfect compression and airseal. it has a non linear m130 that I do not believe to be as strong as the average m130 at all. im not sure if I should just drop in a stock m120. it does not seem at all to me that the gearbox is the problem. the gearbox functions quite well

 

its running either a stock d-boys or a&k metal hop up with a random stock bucking, maybe an h-nub, and the stock barrel from a real sword svd

 

it doesnt seem like it has the fps that it should have. its a little low. it certainly doesnt have the range or accuracy that I would like for a sniper rifle of its size and weight. if I can get better range and accuracy out of a stock cyma ak then I should be able to accomplish that or better with this gun with what parts I have available

I have cut down the outer barrel to make the gun less cumbersome and match up with the rs inner barrel, but what I wonder is if the gearbox is able to create enough compressed air to properly shoot a bb out of such a long barrel that was originally in a gun that basically had a super bore up gearbox (rs svd gearbox)

so maybe I should cut down the inner barrel?

 

would an aps plastic hop up be better than an old metal d-boys/a&k hop up?

 

I am not able to buy anything at this point in time nor do I feel like dumping more of my own money into a gun that I already sacrificed AT LEAST 4 or 5 of my own guns to aquire and re-build for my brother

Edited by Zemanova

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Chrono string? Barrel condition? Barrel length? Cylinder? Random stock bucking? None of this sounds like a recipe for a particularly accurate gun to be frank.

 

I have cut down the outer barrel to make the gun less cumbersome and match up with the rs inner barrel,

 

Maybe you failed to properly do this, and its further screwing up your accuracy?

 

You sort of vomited up a bunch of info, some of which is useful, but its missing a lot of relevant info. I could just throw back an equally useless recommendation though which is just check your compression, and buy quality new parts for your entire barrel group. *shrug* There isn't much else to offer with what you've given us frankly.

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Chrono string? Barrel condition? Barrel length? Cylinder? Random stock bucking? None of this sounds like a recipe for a particularly accurate gun to be frank.

Maybe you failed to properly do this, and its further screwing up your accuracy?

You sort of vomited up a bunch of info, some of which is useful, but its missing a lot of relevant info. I could just throw back an equally useless recommendation though which is just check your compression, and buy quality new parts for your entire barrel group. *shrug* There isn't much else to offer with what you've given us frankly.

rofl yea. this isnt one of my good builds. the gearbox works well, but for some reason a decent hop and bucking was never purchased or never came with my order

if you can imagine... the gun in its stock form was crap balls awful. it had an almost as long inner barrel with a gearbox without reinforcement and running an m100-110

 

I don't have a chrono. it only shoots through one side of a soda can and dents the other. I know the gearbox parts are producing more fps than that so I think the barrel is too long

I believe the barrel is 690mm. it is the stock rs svd barrel. it has less than 500 rounds through it and should have great bore quality. cylinder is non ported.

I have a #14 o-ring, double o-ring cylinder head, and airseal nozzle in the gun with a non linear m120-130. the compression and airseal is amazing. I used this brand of parts and the combo of which in so many guns with wonderful results. so again I think the barrel is too long

the bucking is probly standard clone issue. either d-boys, cyma, a&k, or jg ...but I don't think its a cyma, so therefore im swapping it out for a nice rubbery newish cyma bucking

 

I was just thinking about this gun and how a stock cyma ak shoots way harder, farther, and more accurately than this build

I would like to get this gun performing like that at least. im just low on spare parts to swap out and trying to see what I can do to get it to pick up a little bit

 

im considering using the plastic aps hop up I have because the ignite/aps sportine m4 I got at wally even shot better with a plastic unit and aluminum barrel with a worse bucking. ....but I dunno if it is in fact better than even a crappy metal unit.

 

I have a feeling that the 690mm barrel length is just too long to get proper performance out of with a non ported v2 and the thought that led me there was oh hey! it could be that the barrel is too long for the amount of air being compressed because the barrel came in a set up that compressed way more air

so im thinking about cutting it down 4 to 6 inches, but im hesitant to cut a real sword svd barrel if you can understand that

 

I feel like im kinda rambling on a bit, & if I am im sorry for that. im kinda stretched between having this gun disassembled and brainstorming over it, watching 3 young children on my own, while cleaning house and cooking at the same time

 

I took this gun back from my brother telling him that I was gonna try to make it a little better, & that was almost a year ago.

I finally have the time and have gotten interested in it. I just wanna fix it up so I can hand it back to him and it works better and I can here ya go you fat effin pos

 

...PS

for as much as I want to cut off of it, itll make its length close to a 509mm. I could just put my 509mm matrix steel 6.03 into it ...not that I want to give that part to him or anything, but the bore quality of the real sword barrel should be pretty high since the rs ak I have shoots like a freakin sniper rifle in its stock form. so it should shoot just as well I would imagine

Edited by Zemanova

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The barrel is too long and the velocity of the BB is dropping way too fast in the barrel before it even leaves. If you cut down the outer barrel you may have also removed some stabilization for the inner barrel.

 

I think you will be fine just by replacing/cutting the inner barrel and locking it into place with screws or gasket.

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The barrel is too long and the velocity of the BB is dropping way too fast in the barrel before it even leaves. If you cut down the outer barrel you may have also removed some stabilization for the inner barrel.

 

I think you will be fine just by replacing/cutting the inner barrel and locking it into place with screws or gasket.

see that was my thought exactly. im hoping for some experienced people I know of here who I know for a fact really know their stuff in this area to put in some info regarding the volume of compressed air vs barrel length that can verify my thoughts or disprove them

the gun came with slide on plastic barrel stabilizers so I don't have to worry about that, and the outer barrel has 2 stabilization points that will still be there even after I cut the barrel shorter because ive already done it once.

 

this is just one of those guns that is too long for anyone to want to use it. I feel that having a longer outer barrel than inner is just wasted space and should be shortened to match. hell if it wasnt so expensive and extremely hard to do the front sight of my real sword svd would be sitting flush against the gas block. thats just how I feel. I hate long guns

 

what I want to do is install the steel 509mm 6.03 and then test it to see with my own eyes, but with being in a town area I have nowhere to do so

Edited by Zemanova

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One side of a can? Are we seriously at the poor-man's chrono level? Don't you airsoft at a field where you can't even play without running through chrono?

 

Just for the sake of inane humor, I googled redwolf's article on the subject. Looks like you're sub 1J. So that means, from your M130, you're seeing a roughly 50% loss in kinetic energy.

 

Time for some quick math. These M82s, IIRC, are still just a standard 16 tooth piston, am I right? Or am I confusing this particular M82 with someone else's? Anyway I'll assume it is. Barrel is 690mm. With a standard full cylinder, your cylinder-barrel ratio is 1.18:1 more or less. Obviously not optimized, but you shouldn't be seeing gross power loss at this point either. With bore-up you'd be 1.39:1 or less. (not that you would want to do that, or that you'd use bore-up for that purpose)

 

 

So I maintain you have something calamitously wrong with your gun. Air seal is your most likely culprit, but certainly not the only possibility. Time to start troubleshooting.

 

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One side of a can? Are we seriously at the poor-man's chrono level? Don't you airsoft at a field where you can't even play without running through chrono?

there are no fields here. only people who play with friends and snub people who they don't know or charge them money to play with their own stuff with them, and there is a team that is sponsored by a new local store that probly wont last because of walmart like the 4 like it before it. there are no legit events, no legit fields, and no legit games.

 

doesnt warm air mean great compression? the air coming out of the air nozzle is noticably warm

I just checked this s**t. its good. I know its not a compression/air seal issue

 

im going to try out a covert black ops range testing through the air with the 509mm installed tomorrow

by that I mean im just going to sit in the house and fire a couple shots out the window to see if I notice a difference with a shorter barrel. im certain the accuracy would pick up with it being a 6.03 so im not looking for that as I may not keep that barrel in the gun

 

if it doesnt im going to suspect the non linear spring has something to do with it. even a s**t gun with a s**t gearbox with a s**t bucking, hop up, and barrel should be shooting hotter on a regular m120 and this one is SUPPOSED to be an m130.

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so im can testing the gun some more after reassembly for tomorrows range tests. bb barely dents can at all. I put my finger over the feed tube of the hop up. suddenly it can shoot right through the bottom of the soda can. I guess thats where its fps was going ...down the feed tube

 

so whats that mean? nozzle too short? the only experience with nozzle issues ive encountered before has been when theyre too long to allow feeding. this is different. its been so long since my scratch building massively upgrading & modding days.

im going to have to compare the nozzle to the stock nozzle, but I don't know what difference it would make since none of the internals are ANY of the stock stuff. and before anyone asks, yes the hop up is against the gearbox where it should be

 

looks like my options are put the stock nozzle back on IF longer or lengthen the nozzle to the point of being longer while still allowing for feeding

Edited by Zemanova

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Tehehehe. Your post left me giggling.

 

In all seriousness though, it looks like you seriously need to go back to basics here. Yeah it could be nozzle length, or hop chamber being positioned too far forward, or a distorted bucking lip, or incompatible nozzle and bucking, or simply weak bucking, or misaligned nozzle-bucking, etc. So many possibilities. You can either go running off and attack it your own way and hope you get lucky, or you can go about diagnosing it. I'm tempted to just let you run with it. :P

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I have 6+ years of techy experience working on guns. I never was one of those people who got a gun and never upgraded it then got a new one when it broke or had somebody else fix it. I started out with a CA proline gb watching mechbox.com vids and getting straight into it. this is only the second gun out of at least 50 ive had over the past 6+ years that has had one of these issues

 

so I know my stuff enough to know how to assemble a hop up. so theres no rips or messed up spots in my buckings. both of the hop and barrel combos im testing with this gun are put together correctly undamaged with properly seated buckings and nubs

 

I was right about the gearbox being perfectly fine. sure the spring could be a little bit stronger, but if it can shoot through the bottom of a soda can thats enough fps for me for the type of gun it is.

I am probly still right about the rs barrel being too long for the volume of air being compressed. so it still needs to be shortened

I am confident that my nozzle needs lengthened slightly. if the stock nozzle isnt longer then ill have to mod one

 

I do not feel that anyone can help anymore at this point unless I come back with a hey it wouldnt let bbs feed because its longer, but it has to be in order to shoot correctly

im not attempting to get this performing like a dmr/sniper, just better than a stock clone. hell, id be satisfied if it was at least as good as a cyma ak, but thanks for taking my questions so seriously and the light rudeness

Edited by Zemanova

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I have 6+ years of techy experience working on guns.

 

I do not feel that anyone can help anymore at this point unless I come back with a hey it wouldnt let bbs feed because its longer, but it has to be in order to shoot correctly

 

hell, id be satisfied if it was at least as good as a cyma ak, but thanks for taking my questions so seriously and the light rudeness

 

I mean, at the risk of continuing a pointless discussion, let me point out that you're playing it from both sides here. You'll say, as above, that you have XYZ experience and don't need any help and completely are on it, but at the same time will say:

 

so whats that mean? nozzle too short? the only experience with nozzle issues ive encountered before has been when theyre too long to allow feeding. this is different. its been so long since my scratch building massively upgrading & modding days.

 

So perhaps you can understand why I'm getting mixed signals here. You need help, you want help, you think the help is wrong, you don't want help, you're offended by it....... and all in the space of one post.

 

Am I the only one left a bit confuzzled by all this? :laughbounce:

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im just looking for second opinions on what I already think is wrong before going farther

this is just a side project and does not have my full attention. I get to look at it for maybe 10 minutes at a time before I have to go back to daily responsibilities. I do not have the time to sit down and figure it all out in one dedicated go. I only have that few mins to check it out and get an idea before im forced to drop what im doing and that is why I put up a thread listing things I think that are wrong so that maybe ill get a second opinion or a verification

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>:| so I got F'ed by that stupid aps hop up. it wasnt the case that the nozzle was too short. the air nozzle wouldnt even fit inside the unit and thats why the air was going out the feed tube. it probly only fit together because the nozzle was in a pulled back position when I reassembled the gun

then after id filed down the tip of my airseal nozzle to superglue an extended transplanted nozzle tip the super glue wont even hold the 2 pieces together even after drying. so now I have a ruined airseal nozzle that worked perfectly with the cylinder head that otherwise would have remained fine

 

so it looks like im putting in the aluminum airseal nozzle from the 2nd gen aps v2 that I have no use for

back to square one I guess. at least I know that it does in fact have better fps than it was getting. shoulda shortened that barrel in the first place and I wouldntve run into all this bs

Edited by Zemanova

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this gun is stumping me so hard. it is officially PISSING me off. so much to the point of almost feeling like giving up on it and being done with it

 

the aluminum aps airseal nozzle gave an even better seal than the previously ruined nozzle

leaving the gun untouched long enough to be cool internally, the first shot on semi produces quite warm air. ive checked all these parts for compression and airseal at least 4 times. its completely perfect. ive even cleaned it & added fresh silicone oil

all buckings are seated correctly and hop ups are tight on the bucking. all hop ups are sitting flush against the gearbox with lip inside. yet getting so many odd results

the best performance I have gotten has been out of the cyma bucking, metal unit, and 509mm 6.03. seems that I get a higher fps out of it. it shoots straight through a can, but even with a better airseal nozzle for some reason it cant shoot through the bottom of the can anymore. still it just seems like the bb's kinda float out there. even my stock jg mac10 outranges this gun. ....but then that little thing is rather impressive. but still....

 

I ran into a same brand from same gun parts incompatibility when I tested the shortened rs barrel with the aps hop up. seemed as though the aps nozzle was hitting the inside of the hop up and causing clogs. like wtf? they worked perfectly fine together in the m4 they were in together

so with that I tried the metal unit on the shortened rs barrel. this is the worst performance. I get random fps. most of the bb's shot just seem to be tossed out the barrel. it can shoot through one side of a can point blank, but move the can 3 inches away and it can only dent the can a little

 

for a control sort of test ive even taken the g&p hop up & bucking on a 6.04 barrel from my sr-25 and dropped it in the m82 to see if having quality hop parts would make a difference. long story short ..NOPE!! same s**t a** bulls**t

 

once again I am suspecting that supposed m130 spring. non-linear springs are usually longer than standard springs. this one is no different. I swear if the gearbox wasnt a quick change type I would not be able to pile it in there to close the shells. .....but maybe that is misleading. you would assume that if a spring is hard to hand compress into place then yea sure it could be an m130. I am highly doubting it. but then at the same time I am having mixed thoughts about that. because testing before it was able to produce enough fps to send a bb straight through the bottom of a can effortlessly

im sure if I owned a chrono the readings would be all over the place. sure would be nice if someone had a real m130 to give me to test. im wondering if this spring is even on par with the average stock m120 spring. the compression and airseal I have in the gearbox should be boosting the fps power of any spring in it

 

and then my large battery fell from knee height and exploded in half on the floor. this gun is a b**ch

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I was looking through all the stock parts from the original internals. I noticed the sector gear has a sector chip on it.

now im wondering if I should put it back in the gun. ...or maybe even the original tappet plate too. I dunno if maybe im having a timing issue if the air shoots out the nozzle before it goes into the hop up

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I put the stock s-chipped sector into the gearbox. point blank it shoots straight through the bottom of a can & dents the top now. I dunno how that had THAT much of a difference effect. couldnt put the stock tappet back in because its spring hook was broken off

too dark to test range, but im not expecting much as it seemed like the bb's were still just drifting though the air. I feel like this set up should at least be able to work well with a 509mm barrel. I don't understand how it can have enough fps to go through the bottom of a can into the top yet drastically drop in fps after a couple feet

Edited by Zemanova

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did some range testing today. still a little disapointing. I get better accuracy even though its hard to tell because of how windy it is. also getting some better range, but now the hop up causes the bb's to curve downward no matter what. turning the hop up causes drastic losses of fps/range

 

I don't really know what to do with this giant heavy a** gun. it has a great gearbox combo in it producing good fps, an h-nub, a decent 509mm 6.03 barrel, and a cyma bucking which I would regard as the best clone bucking ive experienced. they do a great job in the ak's they come in. so like wtf?

 

STILL I feel like even with a stock style hop up and bucking I should AT LEAST be getting some stock style range. actually at this point I could call it quits on trying to get some more range out of it, but the bb's curving into the ground part I don't really understand and I would like to get that fixed

 

should I ditch the hard plastic h-nub? I was thinking of using a rubber madbull shark nub. because I was thinking about how having the bucking in the ak it came from was not causing bb's to curve into the ground and the hop up wasnt causing that before. maybe the nub is too hard? I don't understand because I use those hard h-nubs ALL THE TIME without issue

 

I don't have the cash to buy even a halfway decent hop up and bucking so my only option would be to ask people to check the link in my sig to see if a trade could be worked out

I even contemplated putting the m82 externals up for trade for m4 externals, but since its such a hard to get type of gun I kinda want to hold onto it

 

I think at this point im pretty satisfied with the accuracy and the range is better, but I would be seeing better range if the bb's werent curving into the ground. I don't really know what else can be done except trying the shark h-nub or making a trade for better parts. I may have to call it quits on this gun

 

which sucks cuz I was getting paint for it to try an atacs style paintjob

 

MAYBE the gearbox shot out some of the silcone oil I put into it and it got on the bucking. so with that idea my next step will be to clean the inside of the bucking and re-test

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cleaned bucking & installed the madbull shark h-nub which was a real PITA. testing tomorrow, but I think itll cause hop problems since it gets stuck in place after decreasing hop because its in there tight even after lubing with silicone.

my large battery fell out of the gun and cracked in half in a second spot. just not having any luck at all with this gun

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did some indoor can testing. now after installing the madbull shark nub the gun cant even shoot a bb through one side of a can. it barely even dents. this pretty much negates any range testing tomorrow as I know it will be worse

in my parts bins I found another metal hop up and I have set it up on the other barrel. one of these hop ups is the original hop up for the gun, but I dunno which is which. I know one is the snow wolf and the other is a d-boys. I remembered that I had the a&k one in a gun I sold. I dunno which of the metal hop ups would be better or if it even matters. the d-boys is years older than the sw

 

I read reviews about the stock gun. I read things about it having great accuracy and having to downgrade the spring. that sounds nothing like the stock performance of the gun when I got it at all

the only difference between the two metal hop ups is that the feed tube lip that inserts into the mag top is thicker on one.

its really bothering me that I cant make any progress with this gun. it just keeps going in circles no matter what new idea I try

Edited by Zemanova

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