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CaptainOverkill

What are my best options?

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So I was invited to play Airsoft by one of my co-workers and his friends. I will play with them a few rounds before deciding to buy anything but am looking at the expense of Airsoft as an alternative to real firearms training as a Force on Force option.

I would like my gear to best mimic the controls of a real AR so the M4 configuration is the starting point. The better the controls function just like a real gun the better. I have seen some that eject brass but don't like the idea of picking up brass left all over the field.

 

Looking for something in M4/AR-15 style with a Safe, Semi, 3-round burst option in a 14" or 16" barrel. Would like Keymod Free Float rail (such as the Noveske NSR) with flat top upper so that I can use my real vert fore grip. Top rail must work with 1913 picatinny for a real steel RDS I have but don't use any more. I want a responsive trigger that does not have a lag - I pull trigger it fires. It needs to be durable as I tend to be hard on stuff and will be playing as though its real. Buffer tube must be milspec diameter as to fit a Tactical Link Z-360 QD Mount (I use one on my AR and love it). Mags must be changeable in field as I do not want to put more than 30 rounds per mag and cary 1 in weapon + 6to8 mags total in load out. I want something accurate and have capability of 350+ FPS, 400+ would be better. My budget for the Rifle and Mags is $1200.

 

For my side arm I am looking for a good METAL GBB full size 1911 w/ light rail so that I can mount my WML/Laser and use my existing thigh rig. My real 1911 is a Dan Wesson Specialist for reference. Again it must have changeable mags as I will only load them with 7 rounds and will put load out as 1 in weapon + 4 mags in my load out. Beaver tail and thumb safety must be functional. My budget for the 1911 is $250

 

Both items should be relatively easy to maintain and reliable. Challenge kits are O.K. as while I am new to Airsoft I have A LOT of what I think applicable skills to building one (Correct me if I am wrong). I was an Import Tuner for 10+ years, have built my own RC Cars, Build my own HIGH END water cooled gaming PC's and have assembled/owned many real steel firearms including real AR-15's

 

Thank you for your input. Please let me know not only your suggestions but why you suggest them.

Edited by CaptnOverkill

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AR: Most of your requirements are met with a gas blowback rifle (GBBR). VERY similar function, and has a lot of capability to accept real AR parts. Take the WE M4. Can use real upper receivers with modification, along with buffer tube and parts, charging handles, etc. GBBRs (WE specifically) have an NPAS tool available, that allows for the FPS to be changed via allen wrench. Rails are all 1913 spec, will fit anything. The only thing that cannot be filled is the 3-round burst, of which is not available on any GBBR. It can be done personally, but considered a dangerous mod that causes extreme wear. Mags are 30 rounders, buffer tubes are milspec, everything you can ask for. Starting price of 300.00ish, +30.00 per magazine. No GBBR will have a keymod off the shelf, but GBBRs will take any airsoft or RS (generally) rail system.

 

Your GBBR options as follows:

WE (open bolt system over closed bolt system, V2 mags over V1 mags) Lots of aftermarket support, can take lots of real AR parts. RATech internals are always nice with these.

G&P WOC (If you go this route, go with steel internals, not the aluminum ones, or the "challenge kits".) I am not well educated with these, Ill let someone chime in here.

King Arms (Choose one of the above, not this one.) Overall, based of the WA/WOC design, but seriously, just buy the WOC. Magazines are leak city here.

KJW: based off their own system, one of those proprietary systems...

 

1911: Your budget can sort of take it, so this is the recommended route: Use a Tokyo Marui 1911 as a base, with a metal body kit. I don't recall one matching the Dan Wesson specifically, but there are Springfield, Kimber, etc options that are close. You can add real 1911 grips of your choosing if you want. All beavertail and thumb safeties are functional, with any halfway decent GBB. Magazines can be loaded to 7rd real cap, but hold upwards of that. To give you an idea, youd be looking at 150.00-170.00ish for the 1911, MBK varies from 75.00-200.00 for a full kit, and magazines, not sure. Can use KJW magazines as well.

 

If that's too pricey, you can start with a KJW MEU, swap grips and stick with the stock metal slide & frame. 100.00ish.

 

maintain them as you would real firearms. No oil in the magazines.

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What about the Polarstar Fusion Engine stuff? Any good? Is it better than others? Found this and wondering if its any good or if for $1000 I could do better?

 

http://www.airsoftgi.com/product_info.php?products_id=14955

 

People will swear by polarstar, but its not nearly as realistic. Requires an air tank, has a solenoid and FCU, no simulated recoil. Sure, they are adaptive platforms, but not realistic for force on force training.

 

If you have a local store, go test out a GBBR. You will never find something more realistic.

 

Stay away from the Systema PTWs as well. That glorified AEG isnt worth 1200.00.

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People will swear by polarstar, but its not nearly as realistic. Requires an air tank, has a solenoid and FCU, no simulated recoil. Sure, they are adaptive platforms, but not realistic for force on force training.

 

If you have a local store, go test out a GBBR. You will never find something more realistic.

 

Stay away from the Systema PTWs as well. That glorified AEG isnt worth 1200.00.

 

Ok, now with the GBB systems do I have to buy CO2 or Green Gas or is there an option to charge a tank with an Air Compressor and use that to "Reload" fill tanks for the Magazine's.... IE: Compressor fills reservoir the size of a propane tank or smaller, that hooks up to a CO2 canister going through a pressure regulator, that is used to charge the magazine. Just wanted to see if there is a cheep way to keep up and running with a shop compressor I already own.

Edited by CaptnOverkill

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A shop compressor can't be used.

 

All magazines are green gas. Only WE has CO2 magazines available. CO2 is an unregulated gas that puts more pressure on the BGC and nozzle in general. Stick with green gas if you can, or propane. There are CO2 thingys that you can charge things with a 12g CO2 cartridge, but they are meant for grenades only and should not be used for GBBs.

 

Green gas magazines can use propane with an adaptor, 20.00ish. Propane is cheap, the same cans you find for camping appliances at the outdoorsman store. Propane yields slightly higher velocities, harder recoil because of it, and the propane smell out the barrel if you can deal with that.

 

The only thing close to your idea is the AI gas cans. You fill them with propane so you arent lugging a heavier propane canister around, and fill magazines with that.

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You need to decide on what power system you want. Discount spring entirely, it works very well for shotguns and sniper rifles, but must be manually cocked between shots.

 

-Electric is the most commonly used for airsoft assault weapons, it is consistent, reliable, and handles high rates of fire rather easily. There is however a slight delay in trigger response as the motor winds up. With a good battery, motor, and wiring, this delay is minimized to the point that it should have negligible impact, but it will always be there.

 

-Gas has an effectively instant trigger response, and does have an realism advantage in terms of allowing for a slide recoil response. However it is considerably less reliable, and does not handle high rates of fire very well

 

-Polarstar fusion is a hybrid system allowing for the best of both worlds, but it requires a pressure tank carried on your person that is attached to the gun via a hose, not incredibly realistic.

 

 

 

Some other things you should know:

 

-Few airsoft weapons have a burst mode installed from the get go. In the case of AEGs, you will need to install a programmable gizmo known as a mosfet to change the full auto setting to burst. Its a simple and cheap job, and I would recommend putting one in anyways for better performance and reliability.

 

-Most of the high end rifles (usually priced at $400+) are quite durable, and can stand a lot of abuse, there isn't much to worry about there. Be careful, some of the mid level rifles (usually $2-400) that have a metal body use poor quality brittle materials.

 

-Most airsoft guns in general are built almost exactly to the external specifications of the gun they emulate. To the point that attachments, stocks, slides, etc. are almost always interchangeable between them and the real thing.

 

-If you really want the best performance out of your guns, you're going to have to do some tinkering with the internals, or pay someone else to do it for you. This isn't necessarily a bad thing in my opinion, I tend to prefer using machines that I have tinkered with and modified. Whatever gun you choose, I suggest finding out a bit concerning recommended internal upgrades. This site has some excellent guides to get you started.

 

 

If you are looking for direct suggestions, my understanding is that the following guns are quite close to what you seem to want. I would not however recommend ordering from Evike.com, they were just the first to pop up on my search. Take a close look and Let us know if there is something blatantly wrong with those options.

 

G&P M4 Viper https://www.evike.com/product_info.php?manu...oducts_id=31355

KJW KP08 1911 http://www.evike.com/product_info.php?products_id=37350

Edited by Daishain

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Alright, Im going to be that guy.

 

GBBRs technically have less moving parts, and are reliable when taken care of. They are maintained similar to real ARs, so anyone capable of that can do this.

GBBR rates of fire are rather high, can be short stroked, etc. The point of GBBRs, in some minds, is to replicate a real AR. In which case, you would be shooting 15.5ish RPS.

 

Again, AEGs arent realistic enough for force on force training if it needs to replace the use of simunitions or blank fire adapters.

 

The KP08 is a hicapa, based off the double stack 2011 models, not the single stack 1911 that is would basically be required.

 

I will stress GBBR to the end of the earth.

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A shop compressor can't be used.

 

All magazines are green gas. Only WE has CO2 magazines available. CO2 is an unregulated gas that puts more pressure on the BGC and nozzle in general. Stick with green gas if you can, or propane. There are CO2 thingys that you can charge things with a 12g CO2 cartridge, but they are meant for grenades only and should not be used for GBBs.

 

Green gas magazines can use propane with an adaptor, 20.00ish. Propane is cheap, the same cans you find for camping appliances at the outdoorsman store. Propane yields slightly higher velocities, harder recoil because of it, and the propane smell out the barrel if you can deal with that.

 

The only thing close to your idea is the AI gas cans. You fill them with propane so you arent lugging a heavier propane canister around, and fill magazines with that.

 

So than if I get a WE Open Bolt I can run CO2 if wanted but not recommended, Green Gas and Propane. If I do Propane I can use a rechargeable tank that I take to the local gas supply for a recharge, then use that tank to fill smaller tanks to charge my mags? Did I get that right?

 

Found this http://www.airsplat.com/items/GR-WE-RARS-BLK.htm Anything decent? Good Starting point? Figure I could upgrade the internals to all steel as you suggested, add real milspec buffer tube and either keep the rail or possibly change with real steel free float.

 

P.S. Thank you so much for all your help. Just want to see what I am getting into here with out doing obsessive research for months on end.

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So than if I get a WE Open Bolt I can run CO2 if wanted but not recommended, Green Gas and Propane. If I do Propane I can use a rechargeable tank that I take to the local gas supply for a recharge, then use that tank to fill smaller tanks to charge my mags? Did I get that right?

 

Found this http://www.airsplat.com/items/GR-WE-RARS-BLK.htm Anything decent? Good Starting point? Figure I could upgrade the internals to all steel as you suggested, add real milspec buffer tube and either keep the rail or possibly change with real steel free float.

 

P.S. Thank you so much for all your help. Just want to see what I am getting into here with out doing obsessive research for months on end.

 

No, you would fill the gas can with propane from tanks you buy at the store. Just an easier way to carry on the field, a bit unnecessary in my opinion. I would recommend propane, GG a second. CO2, eh not really.

 

I wouldnt buy anything from airsplat. Choose Evike, or another reputable retailer. Airsplat just isnt.

 

That gun is just an open bolt WE, glorified. You can buy a stock, M4A1 for 300.00ish? That way, you arent paying for a rail kit that you would presumably replace with a keymod anyways.

 

http://www.evike.com/products/37273/

its an M16, but you start with a 20" outer..

 

http://www.evike.com/products/37271/

or this, 14.5" outer.

 

Any WE AR with a buffer tube will not need replacing, it is already milspec, a real stock will slide right on. Also, a lot of real steel free floats now have airsoft versions that are cheaper with quality that is appropriate for the setting. Daniel Defense, Troy, VTAC, Noveske, Parallax, etc all have airsoft counterparts for less.

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If you are a real steel user...go WOC type gas guns versus WE.

 

Not to mention 3-round burst FCG is now available for WOC/WA style guns.

 

The biggest disadvantage of GBBRs is the cost vs AEGs: to carry 300 rounds, you're looking at 10 mags <AT> ~$30 each compared to one mag for the AEG.

Edited by chibajoe

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Guest alberty

I want to give an opinion different than gas...I might recommend an AEG. With an AEG, I think the biggest advantages would be the battery power source and not having to worry about the magazines much. With an AEG, you just charge your battery at home, put it into your gun, and load and start shooting. When it gets low, you swap and you're ready to go again.

 

While AEGs are not completely 1:1 real steel spec (for example, the pistol grip is vaguely different and wider, the mags are a little shorter typically), there exist plenty of aftermarket parts for them. For example the Noveskse NSR from Madbull and most AEG buffer tubes/receiver extensions are mil-spec, as per this user's requirements from his opening post. Internally, most M4 AEGs have the same kind of parts and can be upgraded or repaired easily, you won't usually be dealing with model-specific parts and such.

 

If you go for GBBR, you have the power source being the green gas or propane stored in the magazines themselves. If your magazine is broken or leaking gas in some way, then you don't really get to shoot long or at all. Also, simply dropping the magazine to a hard surface could accidentally cause some damage to something, such as the feed lips (which are small and sometimes fragile when it comes to airsoft). With AEG, you could get mid-cap magazines and it's much less likely to break when it dropped; an AEG mid-cap magazine is in essence just a magazine with a spring and follower inside, while a GBBR magazine has several valves, o-rings, a gasket, separate feed lip, follower spring guide, etc. and GBBR mags cost more.

 

Immediately, people will be against it saying "But an AEG's trigger response won't be instant like you would have with a GBBR, unless you do a lot of upgrading work on the gearbox." That's true, and that's one of the unrealistic things I can think of, a small delay from when pulling the trigger to the shot coming out. However, you can get a lot of other conveniences and some money savings from going with AEG, and AEGs can be upgraded to a pretty decent trigger response.

 

People against my suggestion will also mention how the typical AEG does not have realistic features like recoil/kick, functioning bolt catch and moving bolt, etc...and that is true. That is one appeal of GBBRs, and most typical AEGs do not offer that. A few do, but that means proprietary parts, different systems than the typical AEG.

 

From a tech standpoint, some people think GBBRs are easier to work on. That would be true as well, especially for someone with real AR work background. But from my experience with both, I almost feel that AEGs are easier in the sense that the system is similar across all different models, and it's almost more "standardized" in that sense. Whereas if I look at several different GBBR models from different brands and makers, sometimes they have little pieces here and there that vary from each, or sometimes they're completely different form each other. This overall is a subjective part on which is easier.

 

You've mentioned that you have good experience mechanically, so I trust that you would be willing and able to handle any possible maintenance or repair of a GBBR if you choose one.

Edited by alberty

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