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cassielle00

Suggestions for a base project sniper?

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Hey,

 

I'm working out a loadout for the field, and realized I'm missing an important piece. I've got an all-range (leaning long-range) primary, a CQB primary, and an all-range (leaning CQB) secondary. That means... I need a super-tiny sniper carbine!

 

So the idea is a bolt-action or (preferably) semi-auto SBR with a fixed stock (preferably thumbhole, a la L96/APS2). I don't want to start with an M4 variant here, I want to start with a dedicated sniper and/or DMR platform with a versatile cylinder/hop chamber setup that allows for extreme shortening. VSR-10 cylinder is a bit too long and the various __-96's seem to have the same length requirements. Ideally I'd want to get this chopped down to below 27 inches from butt to muzzle and still have a nice long barrel with a ton of power. Something with the most popular "body shape" (VSR/L96/APS2/M700 all have the same general shape of what I mean here -- the parts forward of the trigger assembly) would be best by FAR, and below US$200 is a requirement for the project considering the costs of upgrades and the risk of irreparable damage to the base gun.

 

I'll take any suggestions, but I'm loathe to hack up an AEG unless absolutely unavoidable, and I am mildly uncomfortable playing Texas Chainsaw Massacre with a nice gas gun as well unless it fits the semi-auto bill in my budget range and isn't an endless morass of proprietary parts that no one else has.

 

Thanks

--Cassy

 

Edit:

For the record, I'm flexible on most of the above requirements save for potential overall length. It's just currently most important to me to see how close I can get to a semi-auto APS2/L96 with a very short minimum length before I start making compromises, which is the only reason this post probably seems to be asking for the impossible. Feel free to give your best suggestions and/or tell me outright that what I'm looking for doesn't exist, and I'll start knocking down the requirements till I hit something I'm comfortable with that actually exists!

 

EDIT2:

 

Okay, so I found something that could be perfect: the Well L96 AWS. It IS Well, but there's some bonuses to starting with it:

1: US$146 with included scope and bipod on eHobbyAsia, which I'm getting some KC-02 parts from very soon anyway. I can use the scope and bipod for a fellow player's cheap guns if they're crap, or keep them on my variant L96 if they're decent.

2: Should be compatible with the Laylax short barrel for TM L96, considering this is a TM clone, which means a smaller amount of hacking and sawing and chopping to do.

3: Should be compatible with most TM L96 parts in general, which should make upgrades easy.

4: Won't feel bad for chopping it to tiny bits and re-assembling, because it's JUST a US$140 Well spring bolt action.

 

Anything I need to be aware of here? History of this gun being a giant piece of crap, proprietary internals, etc? Not compatible with the barrel I mentioned? Has a funky egg smell?

Edited by nullCassielle

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Why not a JG GSPEC clone?

 

http://www.evike.com/products/28627/

 

Take your barrel extension off and you have a sweet base gun. I modified my JG stock so that it was foldable using a MP5K PDW stock. So you could easily shorten it that way as well.

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Why not a JG GSPEC clone?

 

http://www.evike.com/products/28627/

 

Take your barrel extension off and you have a sweet base gun. I modified my JG stock so that it was foldable using a MP5K PDW stock. So you could easily shorten it that way as well.

 

Hm. I have ideas for that, using the ICS Mx5 SFS stock, but it's still just a bit of a stretch for me in terms of looks and length. I like the Well's magazine placement and size. I should also be able to snatch up a boneyard TM L96 AWF for the body, because if I can make this thing any tinier I damn well will.

 

The GSPEC has lots of good points though, like having a reasonably common internal system, with absolutely zero chance of unusual parts. The lack of adjustability can be viewed as both a pro and a con: imperfect cheek/shoulder weld, but I can stow a second sidearm in it for balance, preparedness, and why-the-hell-not. Or a field-expedient toolkit for mid-skirmish adjustments, fixes, and (depending on your brain damage) part swaps.

 

Nice as it is, though, something just seems off. I'd possibly be more swayed if there were any real "body mods" out there for them, but they seem stubbornly boring/ugly (depending on your taste, of course). So let's talk length: You have that semi custom folding stock. With the barrel extension off and the stock folded, how big are we talking? I was looking at standard M4 length as a realistic goal, and CQB M4 Patriot pistol length as an ideal when the system is fully "collapsed". How close would the JG GSPEC get me to the realistic goal, or better yet, to the ideal?

 

--Cass

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Does it have to look like a sniper rifle? Because you can take something like a P90 or Tavor, which fit most of your requirements, and turn it into an excellent long range semi auto weapon. Half the point of the bullpup design involves fitting a long barrel in an overall short package.

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Does it have to look like a sniper rifle? Because you can take something like a P90 or Tavor, which fit most of your requirements, and turn it into an excellent long range semi auto weapon. Half the point of the bullpup design involves fitting a long barrel in an overall short package.

 

It doesn't have to look like one, but I'd prefer the general look to be in that ballpark. I'm also VERY iffy on chopping AEGs up. My only experiences with AEG innards have been... well. "Innards" is the word to describe them. Tiny damn puzzle pieces. Gas is something I'm still iffy on, but not NEARLY as uncomfortable as with AEGs, and it's my preference. Springers, I don't even care at that point -- big pieces, easy to handle, everything only goes together the one way.

 

A bullpup bolt action that isn't an anti materiel rifle... well. I wish. The DTA SRS in airsoft form would be SO NICE, but sadly it isn't a thing. http://www.deserttacticalarms.com/guns/dta...le-chassis.html Just look at that MP5 comparison. Beautiful.

 

Gas is my ideal, as a result, though I'd LOVE to find a spring bolt action compromise. AEGs are last-ditch for me.

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the h&k sl9, while a bit on the pricey side and yes its an aeg but it might do the trick. with the mock suppressor in place its like what, a mile long? However, I took it off with a bit of elbow grease, a small propane torch and some nail polish remover and it is much more manageable. I put in a 100 spring and a tightbore (and a new hop up unit cause the flip broke and ya just cant find one of those) and that baby is dmr material....and still borderline sniper. I was putting bbs on target through one building and to the backside of the next one very easily..horizontally.

 

Its light, accurate and has that sexy unibody look. Granted, I got mine through airsplat on the sale that lost them the rights to sell h&k stuff...but I am not complaining.

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the h&k sl9, while a bit on the pricey side and yes its an aeg but it might do the trick. with the mock suppressor in place its like what, a mile long? However, I took it off with a bit of elbow grease, a small propane torch and some nail polish remover and it is much more manageable. I put in a 100 spring and a tightbore (and a new hop up unit cause the flip broke and ya just cant find one of those) and that baby is dmr material....and still borderline sniper. I was putting bbs on target through one building and to the backside of the next one very easily..horizontally.

 

Its light, accurate and has that sexy unibody look. Granted, I got mine through airsplat on the sale that lost them the rights to sell h&k stuff...but I am not complaining.

There's a few issues with that one.

 

Before I go on, though, let me just mention that I am an ENORMOUS fan of the SL8-1, with the extended sight rail of unusual doom. It's one of my favorite weapons of all time, and I'd kill for a PROPER airsoft take on it -- preferably gas.

 

Now, about those issues?

1: AEGs, as I said, are hell for me to work on. Can't do it. Do not enjoy AEG parts. Don't enjoy the sound either. If I can't find ANYTHING else, that's when I'll grab an AEG for this.

2: It's an SL9, a militarized SL8 without the pretty sight rail. That's something like heresy and blasphemy to me, only made worse by the fact that I would HAVE to hack it up to make it compact enough for my final ideal size -- something I could never do to it. It's too nice, even if it IS a heretical perversion of the O.G. SL8-1!

3: Oh, yeah, I'd have to hack it up. Taking the suppressor off only gets you a regular full length rifle. That's far too big for what I'm talking about. I could replace the forearm with a G36C forearm, but that wouldn't fix the length entirely, because the stock and receiver of that thing remain quite bulky. Also, I'd need to find a fitting barrel of appropriate length, and that's just hellish. Why?

4: It's ARES OEM'd, which means loads of proprietary mess. I wouldn't dare get it because if something breaks, I have to MAKE something else fit, or scoop out all the internals and hope the dremel job isn't too difficult to put in sensible, regular stuff. You can't just replace the parts it comes with. Upgrade options also don't look too nice. I've heard nothing good about ARES in this area, and I'd rather not shoot myself in the foot on the word of someone who more than likely got a rare top-notch high-quality ARES, when everyone else is telling me to pretend that manufacturer isn't real.

5: Lastly, and this is the killer -- it's a semi-auto real steel that got turned into a full-auto AEG. It doesn't matter to me how easy it is to disable or fix, the fact that they've taken an already butchered real-steel version of my favorite gun, and then didn't even give it true-to-life functions... that sticks in my craw. It's something I can't get over, and is the only reason I haven't hollowed out an ARES/STAR SL8-1 and turned it into a main weapon. Well... that, and I despise AEGs.

 

It was a suggestion I shot down immediately mentally, but I had to really think over WHY I was shooting it down. You gave me a thoughtful, well-considered suggestion, and you deserve as much thought and consideration when I reject it. So, thanks, but no thanks. I appreciate the contribution, but it's a dead-end for me.

 

Good luck with that SL9 -- I may hear ARES guns are hellish pieces of crap, but I also hear that when they work, they work like nothing you could ever even dream of. Perfection.

Take care of it.

--Cass

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Update!

 

I'm setting this project aside for the moment due to fortuitous occurence, but it seems like I'm going to be going with the JG GSPEC clone. I just found something in a google search about modifying VSR system rifles to be straight pull -- which allows me to actually bullpup them. I'd prefer semi-auto, but I'm not hacking up an AEG and I'm not going to find an "accurized" AEG tiny enough for these purposes.

 

When I get started with this again, I'll begin updating with my build and progress on it. I'm thinking about a number of things here -- but some that specifically come to mind include a bullpup styled after the SL8-1 (two of my favorite things...), a P90 alteration (P90 bodies are readily available, ejection port could be the new mag well if done with care), and (if I could find someone willing to customize me a full outer bolt assembly) a short barrelled OTs-48K (bullpup Mosin Nagant).

 

The one that seems the most viable to me is the SL8-1-inspired bullpup bolt action. I can use Kydex and metal stamps to create my own fictitious trademarks and detailwork, and Bondo with nylon netting and wooden molds to make more featureless parts as well as join the Kydex. I can scavenge boneyard L96s for their adjustable stocks, reshape them to fit the overall look with bondo, Kydex and elbow grease, chop them up to fold in the most compact possible way. It should look very nice with some effort and weigh in at a ridiculously low size -- I'm expecting the fully collapsed system to hit roughly G3 SAS length (between MP5 and MP5K, roughly dead center).

 

Again, this is on hold.

 

One last question: how difficult would it be to modify a VSR system to accept larger magazines, given I'm replacing the ENTIRE body? This will decide what path I take on the body, partially.

 

--Cass

Edited by nullCassielle

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Guest alberty
One last question: how difficult would it be to modify a VSR system to accept larger magazines, given I'm replacing the ENTIRE body? This will decide what path I take on the body, partially.

 

By larger magazine, do you mean using a magazine from a different gun model, or using a higher-capacity VSR-10 style magazine? For a higher-capacity one, a commercially-made one by G&P exists, although I hear mixed reviews about it.

 

As for using a totally different magazine entirely...you'll have to make sure it matches with the VSR-10's feeding setup well, matching the cylinder and air nozzle movement, and the feed lip kind of system.

 

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By larger magazine, do you mean using a magazine from a different gun model, or using a higher-capacity VSR-10 style magazine? For a higher-capacity one, a commercially-made one by G&P exists, although I hear mixed reviews about it.

 

As for using a totally different magazine entirely...you'll have to make sure it matches with the VSR-10's feeding setup well, matching the cylinder and air nozzle movement, and the feed lip kind of system.

 

It'd have to be a totally different magazine -- otherwise it'll be difficult to load into the weapon body I eventually design. I'm comfortable with some elements of this, but redesigning the feed mechanism is not one of them unless it's easy enough to throw a different feed mechanism in there wholesale -- possibly scavenge from a G3, it'd be easy enough to salvage magazine well and loading nozzle... not so sure about making it fit in a VSR.

 

That's more or less what I mean: will it be possible to fix the loading/feed mechanism to accept different magazines without designing a completely custom mechanism? What would be the most likely to work?

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Guest alberty
It'd have to be a totally different magazine -- otherwise it'll be difficult to load into the weapon body I eventually design. I'm comfortable with some elements of this, but redesigning the feed mechanism is not one of them unless it's easy enough to throw a different feed mechanism in there wholesale -- possibly scavenge from a G3, it'd be easy enough to salvage magazine well and loading nozzle... not so sure about making it fit in a VSR.

 

That's more or less what I mean: will it be possible to fix the loading/feed mechanism to accept different magazines without designing a completely custom mechanism? What would be the most likely to work?

 

What I'm thinking is, examine a typical VSR-10 magazine and note how it matches up with the loading area of your cylinder and hop-up unit. If you keep the cylinder and attached hop-up unit as they were in the VSR-10 originally, then you could modify a magazine so the top resembles a VSR-10 mag's top. One random idea I could think of is to cut off the top of a VSR-10 mag, the top part where the BB release latch is.

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