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TheSovietSniper

What's the deal with all the M4s?

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So... What's up with everyone having M4s and M16s? There's actually way more M4s than 16s. If you go into any known airsoft superstore, or even a hobby shop, two-thirds of their products are M4s or M16s. Why? There's nothing particularly special about an M4. It's just another airsoft gun. So what's the point? Everyone and their grandma likes to play as U.S. special forces (Another overused thing) and use M4s. You could have, say, an M4 with X stock, and X FPS, X red dot sight, and X inch grouping at 50 feet. An AK could have the same internals, same specs, and people will still buy the M4. In all honesty, all the outfits of U.S. Special Forces carrying M4s and using desert camo is getting tiring. When will people buy something besides M4s and go with a different scheme than Special Forces? My buddies and I all use AKs, except for one AUG and a G3A3 for marksman rifles.

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Guest alberty

People have been asking the same question for years. Simply, the M4 AEG platform is easy for anyone to start with and customization, and it has the most aftermarket parts and accessories available on the market. Its popularity perpuates itself.

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When will people buy something besides M4s and go with a different scheme than Special Forces?

 

When the US changes it's service rifle? When there are a bunch of movies, TV shows and video games that show off different weapons? When the Military channel shows something other than "US am teh bestest warfighters EVAR part XXVIII?"

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I think everyone has an m4 because everyone has an m4. Seriously. The performance:cost ratio in m4s is the highest, mags are the cheapest by a mile, everyone knows how to work on them. Elite force has only released one model of their ridiculously amazing speedloader, no surprise it's the m4. I could go on with the incentives.

 

They're also very beginner friendly and easy to use, short enough for cqb but decent enough barrel length for range, and comfortable for most people. This means noobs will probably get one. And then when they upgrade it's probably to a VFC/G&P M4 because they're used to the platform.

 

As far as the US SF stuff, stuff like that will always be gucci cool popular especially since it's now cheap as well. Just do your thing and have fun. I guarantee that if you're having more fun than the try hards other people will join you.

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From a tech perspective, m4/m16's are about as easy at it gets to work on.

Wide variety of internal parts, external customization options, magazines, and everything else.

 

AK's are not exactly rare.

There are tons of AK's on the market.

Every field I go to seems to have as many AK's as they do m4's or anything else.

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Guest alberty

From a tech perspective, m4/m16's are about as easy at it gets to work on.

Wide variety of internal parts, external customization options, magazines, and everything else.

 

AK's are not exactly rare.

There are tons of AK's on the market.

Every field I go to seems to have as many AK's as they do m4's or anything else.

 

I personally feel like AKs are easier to work on. You don't have to disassemble as many individual screws, pins, and other parts on a VFC-style AK as you would with a typical M4 AEG, and then the V3 gearbox has the motor cage for easy out-of-body testing and doesn't have a trigger post breaking issue like some V2 gearbox shells experience.

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Here is another perspective from a manufacturer...

 

1. Traditionally, we notice longer guns don't move (sold) as faster shorter one. The ratios is almost 1 m16 vs. 5 m4's. You can do the math which one makes more money.

 

2. Longer guns also carry a higher price tag which most people don't want to spend.

 

3. M4/M16 are the most wanted gun in North America Regions. Therefore, manufacturer like us make guns cater to specific market regions. To MAXIMIZES profit.

 

4. Marketing study also shows the movies and video games drive the sales on certain airsoft guns. Even when you look at the Japanese market alone also see the same trend as anime shows were sponsor by KSC and Tokyo Marui.

Edited by Allizard

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Well... I started out with G36 models... But after starting to tech I switched to an M4 platform because I find it easier to work on(V3 trigger assemblies make me cuss out pieces of metal). They take down easier than my G36, and being a Murican who shoots ARs it was a platform I'm used to. Which is also why I wouldn't use an AK, not used to the platform, I don't even know how to take one down.

 

I honestly don't see anything special about them though, except for everyone uses them so when I need a mag someone can mag flip me one.

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It is what it is...

 

I personally liked the G36 and P90 as well. But the market here heavily concentrated on M4 variants.

If you are looking for something else... just keep looking. it's out there.

Edited by Allizard

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Cool story bro, what chapter do you stop caring about that stuff and just concentrate on doing you?

 

I do agree that seeing all the SOF loadouts is by now not very creative since we are seeing the same gear arranged the same way for players that could have otherwise purchased other good gear and put something creative and useful together.

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Cool story bro, what chapter do you stop caring about that stuff and just concentrate on doing you?

 

I do agree that seeing all the SOF loadouts is by now not very creative since we are seeing the same gear arranged the same way for players that could have otherwise purchased other good gear and put something creative and useful together.

 

I DO concentrate on how my loadout is. I go for the Soviet-era (I have Russian ancestry.) soldier look. I'm getting another shipment of goodies soon, actually.

 

Anyway, I ranted because the M4/Special Forces stuff is SO boring to see over and over again. Every single game I've been to, there's at least one team that's solid Special Forces with nothing but M4s. No LMGs, no DMRs, just M4s. My buddies and I (Have been to one game) Run with: AK-47, AK-47, AK-47, RPK (Me.), AK-47, SVD with PSO-1 scope. And all our AKs are different. One has a wood grip attached to the heat shield and a side folding stock, one is just standard, one has an under folding stock, and one is the synthetic version that looks like an AK-101 (Still a 47 though). Even on the website for my team, I specify that we don't use M4s and that the look of US soldiers just gets tiring.

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For me , it has nothing to do with trends.

Not suggesting that is your approach or anyone else.

Just noting that I really do not even notice what others are wearing.

Sometimes, if I am looking for something specific or a different way to make my load out more accommodating, I will pay more attention to what gear others have and how they have that gear arranged.

 

My load out has everything to do with my playing style.

The gun choice and all the accessories are there for a reason and specific function.

I find a less is more approach more beneficial.

 

Specifically regarding AK's.

I find the large magazine a nuisance when prone.

I know there are shorter mags, but I never tried them.

I can never seem to get an AK low enough when prone.

It also makes sniper crawls cumbersome.
The ladder sights annoy me as well.

Edited by vanevery

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So is this the part where I rant about how your team's kit is always consisted of boring old soviet equipment and antiquated avtomats? I use modern MVD/FSB gear with a tacticool AK and believe anyone who doesn't share my taste and opinions shouldn't be playing airsoft.

To each their own. However, with M4s, it's "To everyone, overused assault rifles that have no flavor". (I am a fan of the FSB though, so cudos to you.)

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For me , it has nothing to do with trends.

Not suggesting that is your approach or anyone else.

Just noting that I really do not even notice what others are wearing.

Sometimes, if I am looking for something specific or a different way to make my load out more accommodating, I will pay more attention to what gear others have and how they have that gear arranged.

 

My load out has everything to do with my playing style.

The gun choice and all the accessories are there for a reason and specific function.

I find a less is more approach more beneficial.

 

Specifically regarding AK's.

I find the large magazine a nuisance when prone.

I know there are shorter mags, but I never tried them.

I can never seem to get an AK low enough when prone.

It also makes sniper crawls cumbersome.

The ladder sights annoy me as well.

 

That's why the RPK has a bipod and I use normal AK clips with it instead of the long one it came with.

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I DO concentrate on how my loadout is. I go for the Soviet-era (I have Russian ancestry.) soldier look. I'm getting another shipment of goodies soon, actually.

 

Anyway, I ranted because the M4/Special Forces stuff is SO boring to see over and over again. Every single game I've been to, there's at least one team that's solid Special Forces with nothing but M4s. No LMGs, no DMRs, just M4s. My buddies and I (Have been to one game) Run with: AK-47, AK-47, AK-47, RPK (Me.), AK-47, SVD with PSO-1 scope. And all our AKs are different. One has a wood grip attached to the heat shield and a side folding stock, one is just standard, one has an under folding stock, and one is the synthetic version that looks like an AK-101 (Still a 47 though). Even on the website for my team, I specify that we don't use M4s and that the look of US soldiers just gets tiring.

 

cool as long as you aren't judging other players solely on the stuff they happen to run.

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Specifically regarding AK's.

I find the large magazine a nuisance when prone.

I know there are shorter mags, but I never tried them.

I can never seem to get an AK low enough when prone.

It also makes sniper crawls cumbersome.

The ladder sights annoy me as well.

If it helps, they teach how to shoot prone in Russia like this:

It's how I shoot prone with my GBB and works well up close. Farther targets and you need to compensate a lot due to the hop being sideways. But if the target is that far I usually find little reason to shoot prone as that means I have enough time to find better cover and shoot kneeling. And for the sniper/prone crawl (not in video), hold the magazine with your dominant hand, thumb at the back of the charging handle, and have the stock and foregrip rest on your biceps as you move forward using your elbows and knees.

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M4s are popular in airsoft for the same reason that AR-15s are popular in real steel, and M4s are preferred over M16s in airsoft for the same reason real-steel trends are moving towards SBRs.

In order:

They're insanely modular -- have a selection of uppers and lowers, mix and match to suit your requirements.

It's a nuisance to carry around more metal than is absolutely necessary in an active setting such as military missions, 3-Gun Competition, or airsoft skirmishes.

 

I'm no fan of the things myself. I feel like they're boring to look at unless you go to the retro AR replicas. But you can't deny that a short gun which you can turn into whatever you need for a given mission has its appeal.

 

Don't get me wrong: M4s are going to lose ground, eventually. But I believe when they do, they'll be replaced by something not too awfully different. Modularity in airsoft and real-steel is a BIG draw. It's been the entire point of latterday military programs. The G36, XM8, G3/MP5, Val/Vintorez/Vikhr, etc -- these are all guns that have multiple variants for multiple roles, and the differences between the individual variants are relatively minor. The big issue with these is that the only options to modify them are the ones the manufacturer(s) give you.

 

Meanwhile, the AR-15 platform has such a wealth of variety out there for it that some of its aspects have even been standardized on, such as the pistol grips and the buffer tube-style collapsible stocks. Hell, some guns are even beginning to support its free-float handguards wherever possible. This means you can set your gun up to the EXACT requirements you need -- where someone with an MP5 will have the options of "assault", "infiltration" and "personal defense", with the limitations of very short range and no stopping power against armored targets, someone with an AR platform weapon can choose to reach out and touch somebody, with a suppressed gun, that is compact enough to keep (in two parts) in a regular suitcase.

 

M4s will go out of style eventually, yes. But you'll see the spectre of the M4 haunting airsoft for the rest of the time you play, because it, like its real-steel grandfather, changed everything.

 

--Cassy

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And in South Africa...its the Galil!

 

You mean the R4?

 

My bigger annoyance with M4's is the tendency of people to fill up rail space just because they can. You know, the guys who have a vertical grip with telescoping bipod and just end up holding the magazine well.

Edited by WeeGee

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I'll give props to the late Eugene Stoner. He built a rifle platform that even today is still more modular and customizable than just about anything else, even in airsoft form.

 

 

 

 

 

My bigger annoyance with M4's is the tendency of people to fill up rail space just because they can. You know, the guys who have a vertical grip with telescoping bipod and just end up holding the magazine well.

 

I hate it in general. If you're gonna attach a vertical grip, please use it. On a semi-related note I once saw a kid hold his gun out with his arms straight to aim and wasn't even trying to shoulder the stock that WASN'T folded/retracted (he could have easily done so).

 

 

I don't hate the AR platform, I really just don't find railed guns in general to be aesthetically appealing personally. They have their uses, but I prefer the rifle to be basic in grips and sights. Then again, I'm also more a fan of Cold War era and prior era guns with wooden furniture and stock-grips instead of pistol-grips....

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You mean the R4?

 

My bigger annoyance with M4's is the tendency of people to fill up rail space just because they can. You know, the guys who have a vertical grip with telescoping bipod and just end up holding the magazine well.

I don't know that you can buy a replica R4 or R5. There are some differences between a Galil and an R4. Very minor but still a difference. But I guess close enough is good enough for all but the most serious.

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I'll give props to the late Eugene Stoner. He built a rifle platform that even today is still more modular and customizable than just about anything else, even in airsoft form.

 

I hate it in general. If you're gonna attach a vertical grip, please use it. On a semi-related note I once saw a kid hold his gun out with his arms straight to aim and wasn't even trying to shoulder the stock that WASN'T folded/retracted (he could have easily done so).

 

I don't hate the AR platform, I really just don't find railed guns in general to be aesthetically appealing personally. They have their uses, but I prefer the rifle to be basic in grips and sights. Then again, I'm also more a fan of Cold War era and prior era guns with wooden furniture and stock-grips instead of pistol-grips....

Looking cool is part of the 'game'. I'd rather play with 50 guys all trying to out cool each other than with 1 guy who has an AK. More is more often merrier.

 

There was a group of 3 young guys buying guns at the local store. Two M4s and a P90. They dropped some pretty serious cash with all the trimmings. And their excitement was palpable. An AK wasn't going to cut it. Too school for cool, in the words of the song.

 

But you're right in that field application may be very different. I did suggest to them that they should consider whether they'll be wearing masks when using the sights. Fortunately one of them understood what I was suggesting.

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I hate it in general. If you're gonna attach a vertical grip, please use it. On a semi-related note I once saw a kid hold his gun out with his arms straight to aim and wasn't even trying to shoulder the stock that WASN'T folded/retracted (he could have easily done so).

 

Not on an M4, but I have a vert grip on my g36c I don't really use for grip, however I DO use it as a monopod on barriers

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I hate it in general. If you're gonna attach a vertical grip, please use it.

 

THIS IS THE WORDS OF WISDOM! I use grips when I have them, except when people are saying they have a use for everything including their flashlights in field play. Then I hold it by the magwell just to piss them off.

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Greaaaaat, another useless rant/thread bashing other peoples preferences. This sounds exactly like that one thread were someone couldn't understand why tacticool exist, that his plain ol green camo worked just as well if not better than other peoples "useless" tacticool gear/camo. COME ON GUYS, who cares if there's an influx of a certain gun, maybe it's because most players live in AMERICA and the m4 is a stable in the US military?! Is it that hard to understand?? There are no movies in the US where Russians are the heroes and everyone's toting the most decked out AK...we are better than this people.

 

Btw, if you want an expanded airsoft experience where people aren't wearing or using the same thing, check out milsim west. they have a dedicated russian team vs US team and everything on both asides are true to the real deal.

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At least in the US, I don't see how M4 could ever become less popular. The reason the price is low is because it is so popular, and the reason (in part) it is popular is because the price is low.

 

No other replica has this advantage in the US, short of some major shake-up, I just don't see anything undoing it. Some of the regional clubs as well as online groups do go through some flavor-of-the-month buying patterns, but whatever the platform of the month is, it doesn't have the staying power because next month, it's old news and everyone in the group is buying / using something new. In the meantime, people keep buying M4's, at least the newer players do.

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Guest alberty

At least in the US, I don't see how M4 could ever become less popular. The reason the price is low is because it is so popular, and the reason (in part) it is popular is because the price is low.

 

No other replica has this advantage in the US, short of some major shake-up, I just don't see anything undoing it. Some of the regional clubs as well as online groups do go through some flavor-of-the-month buying patterns, but whatever the platform of the month is, it doesn't have the staying power because next month, it's old news and everyone in the group is buying / using something new. In the meantime, people keep buying M4's, at least the newer players do.

 

I would guess that even outside of the US, M4s would be the most popular choice for any new players or players limited by distributor selection in their country.

 

For a newbie, an M4 is an attractive choice. There are tons of brands to choose from in all shapes, sizes, configurations, and price ranges. After the initial purchase, they're still able to be customized in almost every piece externally for all of those luxury attachments, and you can share a lot of magazines among M4s and M4-mag-users.

 

It's a solid choice for a beginner.

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I thought internationally MP5-style weapons were the norm, at least that's the impression we got when we tried a little bit of airsoft around 10 years ago. Was that ever true, or have things changed since then?

 

I know 経堂 麻耶 uses a M4A1 so it must have at least a little bit of a following in Asia, sadly the group I play with now -- watching さばげぶっ! seems to be the limit of our exposure to the international scene.

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I thought internationally MP5-style weapons were the norm, at least that's the impression we got when we tried a little bit of airsoft around 10 years ago. Was that ever true, or have things changed since then?

 

I know 経堂 麻耶 uses a M4A1 so it must have at least a little bit of a following in Asia, sadly the group I play with now -- watching さばげぶっ! seems to be the limit of our exposure to the international scene.

 

heh... I gave up watching the 1st episode Sabagebu!

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Guest alberty

I thought internationally MP5-style weapons were the norm, at least that's the impression we got when we tried a little bit of airsoft around 10 years ago. Was that ever true, or have things changed since then?

 

I know 経堂 麻耶 uses a M4A1 so it must have at least a little bit of a following in Asia, sadly the group I play with now -- watching さばげぶっ! seems to be the limit of our exposure to the international scene.

 

Oh sorry yes, I meant today. Today there are so many M4 options that the entire airsoft world could be using them.

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