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So, I am thinking about building a DSG with an insane ROF and standard CQB FPS. Is there anything that is going to blow up with this setup?

 

16 AWG low resistance wiring

 

GATE nanoABB 3rd Gen MOSFET http://www.evike.com/products/47824/

 

Deans

 

SHS Trigger contacts

 

6mmproshop high speed high torque motor http://www.evike.com/products/51834/ or the Tienly version of this

 

RiotSC DSG 8 tooth 10:1 gearset short stroked to 330ish fps

 

m170 spring

 

250mm 6.01mm tightbore barrel

 

lonex 70 degree soft bucking

 

Lonex 15 tooth piston shortstroked and swiss cheesed.

 

Tappet plate modified for DSG

 

Shim job, Radiused gearbox and re-greased with white lithium grease. (the gun comes with good AOE as it is, so long as the new piston doesn't mess it up.)

 

BOLT 65-130 CC 5400 MAH 11.1v LiPo

 

everything else that comes stock in this gun http://www.evike.com/products/42392/

 

Will this blow up? If so why? Will the motor burn out with that spring? Will the lack of Sorbo and neoprene break the front of the gearbox? Should I not short stroke DSG gears? I wanted to use the m170 to avoid pre-engagement. What would the RPS look like? Will trigger response be slow because of the high speed motor? What would RPS be like with a Frankentorque motor?

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The high speed motor will likely not cycle the spring/gear set you have chosen. Even if it does, you will likely see excessive heat, current draw, and burn the motor out. You really need to use the high torque equivalent. Either of these would be better. The lower RPM is indicative of higher torque.

http://www.evike.com/products/51823/

http://www.evike.com/products/51831/

 

Both will likely be faster than a Frankentorque.

 

I would be skeptical of the Matrix "AIM Top" gearbox standing up well without Sorbo. Radiusing is a good first step though.

 

You wont need to short stroke the gears since a DSG only has 2 sets of 8 teeth. With a M170 spring, that will put you right at 330fps with an 8 tooth stroke according to Seigetek's chart on ASM. Just take the last 8 teeth off the piston.

 

HS5 has a nifity little equation to help esitmate ROF, however you need to know the TPA of the motor (so do some research on the motor you linked)

http://forums.airsoftmechanics.com/index.php?topic=6271.msg122756#msg122756

 

Frankentorque motors have 28 or 32TPA depending on which armature you get. So knowing that, your ROF would be 61rps and 53rps respectively with the Frankentorques.

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Add sorbo, It is good to add it to every gun.

 

Don't SS the gears any more than they are stock, I believe 7 is the least that Riot SC sells them, go with that one.

 

The motor might pull it on that battery but it will draw a lot of current, you want a dedicated HT motor. I have no experiance with that motor though so others may say differently.

 

Frankentorque are really slow, maybe 45-55 on that setup?

 

I think most DSG setups use the SHS piston but the Lonex is another top choice, they are very similar in performance.

 

6.01 will jam with that ROF, go for a 6.03.

 

Get genuine Deans and SHS contacts aren't needed unless your current ones are shot, the MOSFET makes the contact quality negligible.

 

Get steel bushings, no idea what is in that gun stock, also why the package? you can't use the battery, charger, or mags from it anyway.

 

Speaking of that base gun, the GB shell might crack, radiusing should stop that but just a warning, it might.

 

Not familiar with BOLT Li-Pos but Tenergy and Zippy are also very good.

 

Get some thick silicone oil or silicone grease for the piston head, cylinder head, air nozzle.

 

Good luck, be ready for opening the GB after every game :)

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Yeah but you probably wouldn't be able to run a 16tpa motor with this type of setup. I mean you could but you would have to carry around a ton of batteries. 22tpa motor should work fine, they are fast and Offer a lot of torque.

 

I honestly recomend building your own 22tpa motor.

-Shs magnets

-lonex end cap and a rewound armature to 22tpa

-a custom ventedmotor can

-the pinion gear that meshes best with your gearset

 

You should go with a lonex gearbox shell, very high chance yours will break and lonex shell's are great for the price.

 

Honestly the maple leaf 50 degree bucking will preform much better at your feet per second and will give you much better range. I would recomend a standard nub being that flat hops don't last very long with high rof guns.

 

You should then be fine

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If I use a 22 TPA motor, could I put in the spring spacer for more FPS? I could then short stroke a tooth off of the sector gear to get a higher return speed. The increased spring tension should also increase return speed. What kind of motor would I need to run a spaced m170? Thanks!

I think a 22 tpa would run it, but I can't confirm. I know that a m190 will run with a 22tpa motor but it isn't very efficient. If you SS one tooth off your gonna be shooting really fast.

 

At that point it may be better to just buy a tri sector gear and a really short barrel. My buddy successfully got one to run that I made. It was insane.

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So, I presume you mean this equation here: ROF= (X*V)/(TPA*ratio) I got 121=(809 x 12) / (16 x 5) presuming a 16 TPA motor and 5 gear ratio for the DSG. does this mean I will be getting 121 RPS or is something really messed up?

(809*11.1)/(16*10.44)=53rps

Times 2 for the DSG is 107.

 

You stated you are using an 11.1v lipo, so that should be your voltage (the nominal voltage), not 12 like you put.

 

A 16TPA motor is not going to cut it with this setup. As said before, you need a high torque motor. With your gears and spring choices, I would suggest 22TPA as your MINIMUM.

 

If I use a 22 TPA motor, could I put in the spring spacer for more FPS? I could then short stroke a tooth off of the sector gear to get a higher return speed. The increased spring tension should also increase return speed. What kind of motor would I need to run a spaced m170? Thanks!

I don't foresee a 22TPA motor pulling a spacered M170 spring. On top of that, GOOD LUCK getting that into the gearbox. An M170 by itself was a PITA, and so was a spacered M150 from personal experience.

 

With a 22TPA motor, you'd be pushing 78rps. On a full stroke (16 tooth piston), you would be able to run 65rps without pre-engagement issues. Now you are taking half those teeth away with the DSG, so you should be able to push that 78rps without PME issues. There really isn't a good reason to run a spacered M170 spring, especially not on your gear set and motor. You are already going to have a fun (read difficult) time feeding a near 80rps gun. On top of that, if you short stroke further, then you further reduce your air volume, meaning you need a shorter barrel and lighter bbs.

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Okay, thanks! so your saying I should get a 22 TPA motor and get like 88 RPS and that be the final build? (I really want 100+ RPS lol) Another question, what would be a really reliable DSG build on a Frankentorque motor? I still need 330 FPS but it might be cool to leave an extra tooth on the piston for a field gun with a 9 tooth DSG. Thanks so much for your help BTW. What is wrong with this logic: If a G&P m170 motor is 16 TPA couldn't it haul that spring back? And even more so if the spring only went back to half compression?

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How do you intend to feed a 100rps gun? Most mags struggle to feed at 70rps. I can tell you that at least one tech has hit 100rps in cyclic rate, but it did not feed bbs. He measured the cyclic rate with Audacity, and was using a 14.8v lipo I believe.

 

You seem set on using a high speed motor, against our suggestion. So at this point, rather than repeating myself, I would say, why don't you go out and try it.

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Okay, thanks guys! I think I will probably build a frankentorque motor and forget going for 100 RPS because its improbable and would have alot of issues. You guys have helped alot so thanks! Just one last question, how would I go about building a more reliable slower ROF maybe DSG build? I don't like the idea of cracking open a GB after every day at airsoft, although I will if that is what it takes.

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Okay, thanks guys! I think I will probably build a frankentorque motor and forget going for 100 RPS because its improbable and would have alot of issues. You guys have helped alot so thanks! Just one last question, how would I go about building a more reliable slower ROF maybe DSG build? I don't like the idea of cracking open a GB after every day at airsoft, although I will if that is what it takes.

A spaced m170 10:1 dsg ran fine on my 3000 mah 11.1v 65c battery. There were not issues at all and the motor ran it like a champ. It had systema magnets, a re wound armature, and properly shimmed. Using 14ga wiring it was perfect and really fast.

 

What you need to do to achieve a 100 rounds per second fun! (Don't tell me it doesn't work because I saw people do it on a trip to Taiwan).

 

-A very short tapet plate spring.

-a custom made gearset

-a high tooth bevel (most people had made 13t bevel gears)

-midccaps with springs that have been extremely stretched and oil treated etc.

-a perfect shim job.

-very high quality spring guide ball bearings and piston head ball bearings.

-a very high quality spring

-and a very high quality piston that has been Swiss cheesed the hell out of.

-high quality gearbox.

-very short barrel.

-14.8v+

 

The tappet plate must be made out of a very high quality plastic. Like the abs/fiber/nylon ones that are invincible.

 

With the proper tuning it can be done, but not without a price and time spent.

 

 

As for the tri sector gear, I helped him put it together but we used a 40 tpa motor and an 11.1v battery. It was using a 28:1 gearset system and a m190 with two spring guide spacers. Ran but wasn't as fast as you'd think untill we tested it with a 18.6v battery. Then it was just insane.

 

Oh keep in mind when following that equation that the more extreme your setup the more inaccurate it becomes.

 

I built a 10:1 ssg, with a 22 tpa motor the swapped with a 12t custom bevel and got 55 rounds per second before shortly pre engaging my piston. I was supposed to get 48 rounds per second if I had followed the equation.

Edited by MrGearbox

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I know this sounds like a ton of fun, but it would take a ton of work, and I am not the most experienced tech. I have taken down GB's and put them back together and I do a lot of research about this stuff, but I don't have much experience. If I can achieve 60+ RPS with a reliable gun I will be very happy. If I put an 11.1 in with a frankentorque and a DSG I will be very satisfied. Feel free to build a 100RPS gun! I really want to see it feed that :) Also, Strafer MOD4s are cheating lol I mean an AEG.

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