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Eatchalk123

Seigetek Gear Ratio Questions.

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The 10.44:1 marking is the gear ratio. In other words, how many revolutions the first gear must spin for the last gear to make one revolution. The smaller the number, the higher speed (and thus lower torque) they are, meaning they will produce a higher rate of fire.

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Ok buddy its simple, you don't need to know how it works or why but ill put it simple for you. lower gear ratio(10.1) is for high speed, if thats what your going for, you will have to use a high torque motor hower to get that speed so a jg blue is the best but you could also use lonex, shs, zci all make high torque that will work with the gears. The high torque gears(20:15) don't even buy, they are almost the same as the stock gears(18:1) and you would use a balanced or a high speed motor(simply cant recommend) for the best price and performance go for SHS 12:1 and JG blue high torque motor those two together will offer great performance and price, only 50$ total. Seigetek gears are good but ive never needed diamond quality. hope this helps, let me know if it does!!

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Well the JG Blue is good but by no means the best. Also make sure you have a MOSFET before using an 11.1v Li-Po. Also we have no; dea what OP even wants.

Yes you are right we really don't know what he has but I would assume if hes looking at dropping 120$ on a gear set, he has at least heard of a mosfet. now if he doesnt already have a mosfet I realy feel sorry for him. if you don't have a mosfet fet get one, its only 30$ for basic 3034(the best) and a good battery and electrical system are far more important them those gears, believe me. as for the jg blue not being the best, yes it is. all matter of opinion but it is the best manufactured motor you can buy. The absolute best is obviously custom built motors wound to perfect cadense with spring, gear ratio, battery V/A. but if hes asking about gear ratio... I doubt he has any clue what I just said.

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Please explain how a motor balanced with globs is the best manufactured. Also there are no bests in Airsoft. There are good, bad, and preference but no solve all solution for everyone. Don't get me wrong I love the JG Blue as it is a great motor and it's cheap, but I wouldn't put it in every build.

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DreadCo, you really have got to stop storming through these forums spewing a bunch of opinionated half-truths and trying to pass them off as facts.

 

The JG Blue is by far not the best motor you can buy in the market, stock or otherwise. There are several other motors from other companies that will offer better tolerances, lower power draw, lower running temperature, and higher performance. A JG Blue is a fantastic motor for the price, no doubt, but it is still just a 22TPA neo motor made in china with mediocre tolerances.

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Please explain how a motor balanced with globs is the best manufactured. Also there are no bests in Airsoft. There are good, bad, and preference but no solve all solution for everyone. Don't get me wrong I love the JG Blue as it is a great motor and it's cheap, but I wouldn't put it in every build.

 

 

DreadCo, you really have got to stop storming through these forums spewing a bunch of opinionated half-truths and trying to pass them off as facts.

 

The JG Blue is by far not the best motor you can buy in the market, stock or otherwise. There are several other motors from other companies that will offer better tolerances, lower power draw, lower running temperature, and higher performance. A JG Blue is a fantastic motor for the price, no doubt, but it is still just a 22TPA neo motor made in china with mediocre tolerances.

jg blue is such a cheap motor but will perform very well with 10.1 gears thats why I recommended it, I should have rephrased my original post to say very good not best and I will in the future.

 

Im not saying my opinions are right but like I said it is just my opinion nothing else. Ive never used a manufactured motor that was better on price or performance and ive used them all. once again just opinion. im sure all of you have immense experience but to say the advice I give is wrong is just another opinion. if you honestly think any advice I give is wrong tell me. im just trying to give direct honest answers to those who have no clue what there doing. I said the 3034 is the best, im sure there is better but as far as price and effectiveness goes, you cant beat it. there is mosfets with a little more to them but they all have negatives that counter the good. We have moved way off topic tho so if you still want to list the things you don't agree with on pm me.

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You're insinuating that your opinions are correct.

 

The truth is, we don't even know what battery the OP is running. If he's running a 7.4v, or 9.6v NiMh, saying a mosfet is a necessity is rather, well, unnecessary. Until the OP tells us what he wants to get out of his gearbox, and we know what he currently uses, it's hard to recommend anything further except to tell him what gear ratios represent what general kinds of builds.

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Ive never used a manufactured motor that was better on price or performance and ive used them all. once again just opinion. im sure all of you have immense experience but to say the advice I give is wrong is just another opinion. if you honestly think any advice I give is wrong tell me.....

So...IYHO...what do you think about:

 

Tienly Motors GT30000 to GT450000

Swiss Arms "Animal" Motors Hippo, Rhino, Cheetah and the Peregrine

ICS Turbo 3000

 

Not trying to put you on the spot...but in the spirit of dialog and learning, plus me wanting to hear from someone else about these motors. I would appreciate you opinions on these motors.

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-This is all opinion, all of it!! none of this is facts and shouldnt be past as such.

 

Haha well IMHO.

 

ICS Suck!! along with any other product they make.

 

Lonex are ok but under any stress their brushes crumble like a cookie so simply doing a motor break in wont work, you will have to change the brushes to ones that are not so soft.

 

Tienly, are really good but ASG have bested them for sure.

 

Swiss arms, ive never used one but if they compare with the other products they make, I wouldnt pay two cents. but idk

 

ASG are really the best motors ive ever seen period, if you have not had the pleasure of using one I say with no hesitation, They Are the Best!! at least that ive used.

 

APS, suck.

 

AIM, suck.

 

Echo 1, suck.

 

Evikes, really really suck!!

 

G&P, some suck, some are good but all are way over priced.

 

G&G surprisingly pretty good.

 

Matrix suck due to the weak endbell, always breaks!!

 

JG amazing, I have used over 100 and only ever seen one fail, this is one of my favorite motors.

 

Systemas really suck, they way over heat and they waist more energy than a 5 year old and cost more than a girlfriend.

 

the best possible motor to me is taking a ASG motor and rewinding it to whatever cycles the fastest on the first shot(trigger response/cycle completion). Specifically for the purpose of that build.

 

let me know if you agree if not... ill freakin break your neck!!

Edited by DreadCo.

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I thought ASG motors were re-branded Tienly motors? I bought a Tienly GT-3500 a couple months ago actually, quite disappointing. It's not a particularly good motor, but I have motors that cost half as much that outperforms it in pretty much every aspect. I agree on Lonex motors, they're kinda fragile. G&G motors have been kinda meh for me, nothing impressive there so far, their armatures are supposedly good in high strength neo cans though. ASG motors, Tienly re-brand or not, are too expensive to even be worth trying. I'm very pleased with my ICS MP5 (upgraded though), but I agree on the motors, the Turbo 3000 that was in it isn't particularly high quality.

 

The best motors I've used now is the 2013 16TPA generation of Dream Army motors, fairly sure these are re-branded SHS motors. Amazing price to performance ratio anyway, got them for $26.50 at KHMountain, and none have failed me after several seasons in relatively high stress setups. My Lonex motors didn't last one season in similar setups. I'm also very pleased with my Guarder ITU that I'm running in my M4. The pinion gear is a bit too soft, but other than that it's performed beautifully so far after about 20k cycles, the brushes seem to hold up very well.

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Its definitely a different motor with a way different price. now idk if they copied the old Tienly motors and came up with a better design idk. both of these motors are amazing!! but the ASG is a newer model at least and has a better design and is a good bit cheaper, even the manufactures price is cheaper. I do like the larger brushes on both as they can transfer more volts, when using big :censored2: batteries 4 and 5 cell, with most motors the volts level out at some point and you just have heat build up but with these two they cycle faster and the overall build quality is amazing. ive never used guarder motors but have used their springs and shims, I like them both. maybe guges can tell us a little more about the manufactures.

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The 10.44:1 marking is the gear ratio. In other words, how many revolutions the first gear must spin for the last gear to make one revolution. The smaller the number, the higher speed (and thus lower torque) they are, meaning they will produce a higher rate of fire.

 

This is all opinion, all of it!! none of this is facts and should not be past as such.

 

he already answered your question^. the lower the number(lower ratio) the faster the gears cycles but the less efficient. the bigger the number(high ratio) the more torque and the most efficiency.

 

I am confused by your wording. is 10:44 and 15:20? is 10:44 10:1 or 16:1? I don't understand what your asking?

 

if you are trying to figure out which to buy you will have to provide goals, what are you trying to accomplish? if you tell us we can relate with you and give you the best simple answer.

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Its definitely a different motor with a way different price. now idk if they copied the old Tienly motors and came up with a better design idk. both of these motors are amazing!! but the ASG is a newer model at least and has a better design and is a good bit cheaper, even the manufactures price is cheaper. I do like the larger brushes on both as they can transfer more volts, when using big :censored2: batteries 4 and 5 cell, with most motors the volts level out at some point and you just have heat build up but with these two they cycle faster and the overall build quality is amazing. ive never used guarder motors but have used their springs and shims, I like them both. maybe guges can tell us a little more about the manufactures.

Why the heck would you need to use a 5 cell battery in an AEG? Only setup where I could see it being necessary is for one going beyond 100 watts or aiming for near instantaneous trigger response with something like an M200-210 spring with a custom wound 30+ TPA motor. The latter example would be very interesting to see. :biggrin: Highest I've gone was 4 cells for a DMR setup, and for a couple experimental 50 rps SSG setups, other than that I don't go beyond 3 cells.

 

There are a few differences between Tienly and ASG motors, but Tienly is what's most similar. I doubt that ASG produce their own motors, when their other parts are rebrands, with most of them being made by Lonex.

 

OP, if you're asking if 10.44:1 and 10:1 ratio are the same, then yes, manufacturers usually round off the ratio numbers. 13:1 ratio gears are actually 13.65:1 if I remember correctly. As for what gear ratios are good in what setup, that question is too broad. I could give you dozens of examples and you wouldn't really be any wiser.

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Why the heck would you need to use a 5 cell battery in an AEG? Only setup where I could see it being necessary is for one going beyond 100 watts or aiming for near instantaneous trigger response with something like an M200-210 spring with a custom wound 30+ TPA motor. The latter example would be very interesting to see. :biggrin: Highest I've gone was 4 cells for a DMR setup, and for a couple experimental 50 rps SSG setups, other than that I don't go beyond 3 cells.

 

There are a few differences between Tienly and ASG motors, but Tienly is what's most similar. I doubt that ASG produce their own motors, when their other parts are rebrands, with most of them being made by Lonex.

 

OP, if you're asking if 10.44:1 and 10:1 ratio are the same, then yes, manufacturers usually round off the ratio numbers. 13:1 ratio gears are actually 13.65:1 if I remember correctly. As for what gear ratios are good in what setup, that question is too broad. I could give you dozens of examples and you wouldn't really be any wiser.

 

Haha what setup?, I have a few builds where I am pulling a m210 spring at ridiculous speed. here lately I am trying to hit 90-100 rps just for the hell of it so I have to have the volts and amp output capabilities. im interested, what is the highest feeding setup you have accomplished? I know rof is worthless after 30rps but its so fun!! and the highest speed I have seen was meakiii, just at 60rps and zandachare(I think thats his name) 75rps but I never did see it feed so idk if it ever did, he didnt show it. I really want to know what the highest speed gun is just for the knowledge.

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Good luck getting things to feed above 75 rps reliably. It's possible but at the cost of a horrible air seal.

 

What happens is that you have to have so much tension that the next bb pushes the air nozzle up. This basically limits your range and makes it pointless. Not to mention a huge waste of bbs when you can shoot much more reliably at 30 rps.

 

I tried, I though it was possible and in technically it is but it renders the gun utterly useless.

Btw dread, if your going to lie at least make it believe able...

 

Anyway I think SHS motors Are the best bang for the buck.

I also think that lonex motors are over hyped and generally suck.

JG blue are okay

Tienly motors are pretty good

Systema motors are power hogs

Zci are basically SHS motors

Matrix motors have bad quality control

TM some of the best ferrous motors.

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A friend of mine was able to a achieve somewhat reliable feeding in a 90rps DSG setup, he blew compressed air into the magazine to push the BB's if I remember correctly, so not exactly a practical setup. I built a 51rps SSG setup in my old AUG, which fed reliably, haven't really gotten into DSG's yet. Going past 40rps gets kinda impractical anyway, few mags can feed reliably at those speeds, and it can potentially increase ammo cost quite a bit. The people on the receiving end tend to complain too, so I've capped my ROF at 40 rps for that reason too.

 

High speed setups are fun indeed, it may give a small tactical advantage when it comes to quickly suppressing an opponent, but toher than that it doesn't really give me any advantages. I pretty much never have opponents not call the hit when I shoot them though. They know that I will keep the trigger down until I see their hand come up and they yell "Hit!".

 

I can see heat issues with pulling an M210 spring at relatively high ROF. Might be somewhat reliable with high performance RC brushes, but I can see the commutator struggling in such setups.

 

I agree on TM motors being good, they have very good armatures, I put an EG700 armature in an SHS neo can, it's slow, but the torque output is beautiful and it has very good efficiency.

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Btw dread, if your going to lie at least make it believe able... when did I I lie? I didnt post on here saying my gun is feeding past 90/100 I said ive been working on it with several builds, I also didnt post any ridiculous stats like saying my gun shoots 600ft but anyway. I will soon tho!!

 

A friend of mine was able to a achieve somewhat reliable feeding in a 90rps DSG setup, he blew compressed air into the magazine to push the BB's if I remember correctly, so not exactly a practical setup. I built a 51rps SSG setup in my old AUG, which fed reliably, haven't really gotten into DSG's yet. Going past 40rps gets kinda impractical anyway, few mags can feed reliably at those speeds, and it can potentially increase ammo cost quite a bit. The people on the receiving end tend to complain too, so I've capped my ROF at 40 rps for that reason too.

 

High speed setups are fun indeed, it may give a small tactical advantage when it comes to quickly suppressing an opponent, but toher than that it doesn't really give me any advantages. I pretty much never have opponents not call the hit when I shoot them though. They know that I will keep the trigger down until I see their hand come up and they yell "Hit!".

 

I can see heat issues with pulling an M210 spring at relatively high ROF. Might be somewhat reliable with high performance RC brushes, but I can see the commutator struggling in such setups.

 

I agree on TM motors being good, they have very good armatures, I put an EG700 armature in an SHS neo can, it's slow, but the torque output is beautiful and it has very good efficiency.

 

see, I think the dsg is the problem. if you think about it they really don't double the speed, well they do but not really. if you think about a ssg half of it has teeth and the other half doesnt so the side with no teeth will spin faster because its free of load. so im amping the hell out of a ssg and it will give more time for feeding whenever I get to those numbers. I know finding a mag that feeds is harder than bulding the gun its self but I have built a mag that only shoots 40bbs but works great for testing(its a straight sping in a 2 by 4). heat build up is the worst. you could fry an egg on my grip. I would never actully use a gun in a game that shot over 30rps after that you start loosing range and they are complete bb waisters. like I said tho they are fun to build and show off.

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when did I I lie? I didnt post on here saying my gun is feeding past 90/100 I said ive been working on it with several builds, I also didnt post any ridiculous stats like saying my gun shoots 600ft but anyway. I will soon tho!!

A 90 rps AEG sounds pretty sketchy, and you don't have any proof to back it up either.

 

Anyone can say that they built a DSG that shoots super fast.

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Btw dread, if your going to lie at least make it believe able... when did I I lie? I didnt post on here saying my gun is feeding past 90/100 I said ive been working on it with several builds, I also didnt post any ridiculous stats like saying my gun shoots 600ft but anyway. I will soon tho!!

 

 

see, I think the dsg is the problem. if you think about it they really don't double the speed, well they do but not really. if you think about a ssg half of it has teeth and the other half doesnt so the side with no teeth will spin faster because its free of load. so im amping the hell out of a ssg and it will give more time for feeding whenever I get to those numbers. I know finding a mag that feeds is harder than bulding the gun its self but I have built a mag that only shoots 40bbs but works great for testing(its a straight sping in a 2 by 4). heat build up is the worst. you could fry an egg on my grip. I would never actully use a gun in a game that shot over 30rps after that you start loosing range and they are complete bb waisters. like I said tho they are fun to build and show off.

I'm getting nearly 200 feet range at 38rps with a standard hop-up with a Lonex 50* bucking, so you can definitely get good range at high ROF. It's in my G&G AK 104, it shoots 1.2 joules (360fps) with little deviation +- 2 fps, so not too bad. Accuracy suffers a bit due to the vibrations the high ROF causes though. DSG's supposedly feed better at higher ROF than SSG's. I'm guessing this is because the tappet plate and nozzle move at a lower velocity and thus operates more smoothly at higher ROF.

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I'm getting nearly 200 feet range at 38rps with a standard hop-up with a Lonex 50* bucking, so you can definitely get good range at high ROF. It's in my G&G AK 104, it shoots 1.2 joules (360fps) with little deviation +- 2 fps, so not too bad. Accuracy suffers a bit due to the vibrations the high ROF causes though. DSG's supposedly feed better at higher ROF than SSG's. I'm guessing this is because the tappet plate and nozzle move at a lower velocity and thus operates more smoothly at higher ROF.

 

Sounds like a really good build you could use it almost anywhere. here in georgia its mostly outdoor game play and fps is not really a big deal so I use range guns but I bet that gun dominates cqb games. does it have good trigger response? like whats the basic design.

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It's too hot for full auto in the CQB areas at the local field, but it has the trigger response for rapid semi fire, so it works for CQB. Trigger response is pretty much as good as you can get with an SSG setup, I'd have to go DSG to improve on the trigger response. With a hair trigger I could probably get up to 10rps in semi auto. It's nothing extraordinary, just put a good amount of time and effort into building it. It has a combination of DA 16TPA high torque motor, SHS 3rd gen 13:1 ratio gears with 2 teeth short stroke, swissed SHS 15T piston, Lonex air seal parts, DA M130 spring to minimize overspin, everything installed in a VFC (not very fond of Lonex shells) V3 shell with G&P 8mm bearings. It's also got a combination of 18 and 16AWG wiring, a GATE MERF 3.2 fet, powered by a Turnigy 11.1V 40-80C 1400mAh li-po. I'm still using the stock G&G barrel, it might need replacing or lapping soon, as it's quite worn. I have of course corrected AOE, shimmed by the bevel etc.

 

I use my ICS MP5 for CQB, with a CQB approved setup so I can use full auto in the CQB areas. The highest ROF I've fielded was a 44 rps setup in my AUG, that was very unreliable and was an experimental setup really. It pulled a whopping ~40 amps and the brush leads burnt off after less than 5k cycles.

 

I don't consider this off topic, as this is a setup with 13:1 ratio gears that OP can replicate if he feels it suits his needs.

 

My friend actually showed me a photo of the chrono reading of his 90 rps DSG build, so it was a legitimate setup. It did hit PME though, and was only an experimental build.

Edited by Lefse

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A 90 rps AEG sounds pretty sketchy, and you don't have any proof to back it up either.

 

Anyone can say that they built a DSG that shoots super fast.

Cyclic rates of 100rps and more have been been done. But they haven't been "fed" yet. Feeding them is the issue.

 

At this point, higher and higher cyclic rates are just a matter of power input, using 4 and 5 cell lipos.

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Cyclic rates of 100rps and more have been been done. But they haven't been "fed" yet. Feeding them is the issue.

 

At this point, higher and higher cyclic rates are just a matter of power input, using 4 and 5 cell lipos.

 

thank you!! finally someone with a introspective perception on what I was saying, I don't know if the others have problems with comprehesion or what but like you said cycling is the simple part of the equation. I didnt claim I had it feeding yet, tho it seems others are sure I did but then again misspelling spring as spting proved to be a fatal flaw one of which assured many call outs. I will say that I do have a few ideas to solve feeding at those speeds that I am working on such as a angled air-nozzle hard to explain but you can come up with an understanding if you think about it. the other idea is attaching the tappet directly to the piston. this would be good simply because they would move in unison, this will however be difficult do to the nozzle needing to be sealed before the piston returns so im working on a slip stop slip action. I have not fully tested these ideas but I honestly think the angled nozzle will work the best however it takes a lot of modification. let me know if you have found any better ways to solve extreme the feeding.

Edited by DreadCo.

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Thanks man if you have some id love to here them. im also working on making the entire feeding system in the hop-up area. the nozzle will move towards the gearbox and kind of scoop the bb on its way back, it will be timed by a whole different system but like I said all of these ideas take time and I can only justify putting so much time and money in it.

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The best motors I've used now is the 2013 16TPA generation of Dream Army motors, fairly sure these are re-branded SHS motors. Amazing price to performance ratio anyway, got them for $26.50 at KHMountain, and none have failed me after several seasons in relatively high stress setups.

 

Yep, afaik Dream Army is the OEM for SHS parts. I remember when the SHS hype took off and SHS HT motors started flying off the shelves. I've had one in my G36 for at least four years and it's been fine--out of curiosity, do yours tend to run hot? It felt like a lot of people jumped from SHS onto the Lonex bandwagon a few years ago and dumped their SHS motors in favor of the Lonex A2.

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My DA motors are actually my coolest running motors, cooler than my Tienly GT-35000 even, which doesn't run particularly cool actually. I was a fan of Lonex motors for a short time period, about one season, as that's how long they lasted as stated earlier in this thread. The Guarder ITU will most likely take over as my go-to motor, as Dream Army and SHS motors still seem to be relatively inconsistent.

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