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yayapfool

Been out of the game for too long - veteran looking to get up to speed on the best VSR buckings.

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Though I did a fine job storing my rifle in every way I can think of, my Nine Ball bucking managed to degrade enough to get a bit of a split.

 

I normally use heavy BB's (~.4) and shoot very hot (though sometimes I reduce FPS for a field).

 

I've noticed there's been an increase in manufacturers' disclosure of specifics- 70, 75, 80 degree hardness? Does anyone know the durometer (I think that's the hardness measurement being used here...) of Nine Ball bucking? What should I know about hardness in reference to bucking?

 

Or is there a certain company which just has a better reputation I should go with, regardless of numbers?

 

Thanks!

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Go with a Maple Leaf or A+ hop rubber. Basically they're an out-of-the-box concave flat hop aka R-hop. Nineball is relatively soft. The faster you're shooting the heavier bbs you need which in turn needs harder rubbers to get a good spin on them. Generally for <400fps you'd want <60 hardness.

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Go with a Maple Leaf or A+ hop rubber. Basically they're an out-of-the-box concave flat hop aka R-hop. Nineball is relatively soft. The faster you're shooting the heavier bbs you need which in turn needs harder rubbers to get a good spin on them. Generally for <400fps you'd want <60 hardness.

 

Figured I'd be told to go harder than Nine Ball, it did feel soft (why I was wondering the hardness, but can't find any info on it), surprised how long it lasted to be honest- especially after I turned it inside-out and dremel'd off the stupid bump. Resilient material that stuff is.

 

I already ground down my metal rectangular nub to have a ^ shape facing down, so flat is ideal!

 

Thank you very much.

Edited by yayapfool

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Someone should speak now if there's any reason for me to not buy the 70 degree, non-delta, Maple Leaf rubber:

 

http://www.airsoftatlanta.com/Maple-Leaf-Hop-Up-Rubber-70-Degree-p/44173.htm

 

I see their 'delta' options, which seem nice, but as I said, I've custom-jerry-rigged the exact same idea into the metal nub pushing into the rubber on my rifle myself, so it's unnecessary [unless I'm convinced their system is significantly better].

 

I'm leaning toward the 70 degree option because [and this is pretty much all mental, I haven't heard conclusive arguments on this topic] I feel as though softer is better, but doesn't last as long, which brings me to my next point...

 

I'm not under the misconception a part like this lasts forever, so I'm about to buy two and keep one stored appropriately (any tips? I've been told silicone oil, but not too much silicone oil)- hence, I don't want to be making too rash of a decision via the purchase of two of the same part which is less desirable than my current understanding.

It's just that I'd really like to get the part as soon as possible.

 

Thanks for your time if you're reading, I'll make the purchase within a day, so any input is lovely.

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I would never oil a packing (aka bucking). Leave it in it's bag and it will be fine.

 

The most likely cause in my opinion of your cracked unit is that some Petro-Distilates got on it soaked in and over time degraded that section of the Nine Ball and the natural elasticity of the packing gave up and split.

 

Personally I prefer softer packing 60 for my 400fps .28g shooters. So little adjustment is needed to dial it in. I have found harder packings to require more adjustment to give it the grab and spin that I want.

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I would never oil a packing (aka bucking). Leave it in it's bag and it will be fine.

 

The most likely cause in my opinion of your cracked unit is that some Petro-Distilates got on it soaked in and over time degraded that section of the Nine Ball and the natural elasticity of the packing gave up and split.

 

Personally I prefer softer packing 60 for my 400fps .28g shooters. So little adjustment is needed to dial it in. I have found harder packings to require more adjustment to give it the grab and spin that I want.

 

Petro-Distilates meaning those oils airsofters are supposed to avoid? Like WD-40?

 

400 FPS at .28g BB would be ~2.08 Joules, my rifle shoots somewhere around ~2.32-2.34 Joules (500-600 FPS at .2g BB for example) most of the time (in my area, you have to be certified to be a sniper (above 400 FPS), and cannot shoot enemies [at >400 FPS] under 100 ft distance), so would 70 degrees be reasonable, as a soft packing given the power I'm using?

 

Thanks!

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Sorry, that is 400fps (.20g) standard. And I shoot .28g's

 

Honestly, I never agreed with the simplicity of FPS X you should use Packing 2. Or FPS Y you need to use packing 3....etc..

 

While you can gauge the needs of the your aeg based on specs and than other factors. The "system" that is your AEG all really depend on how it works.

 

Hop-up adjustment is loose...a hard durometer packing would be bad due to the inability of the arm to stay depressed against the inelasticity of the packing.

 

Hop-up and nub is to tight and then you get into the realm of fps reduction and poor back spin as you dial it in more.

 

See what I am trying to convey?

 

You have to set a standard and then move up or down back or forwards to find your "sweet spot".

Edited by Guges Mk3

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Absolutely, and I agree. But for now, given the fact that I'm unsure what durometer [Nine Ball] I was using, I don't really have much to go off of. So I'm just trying to get a good ball-park-reasonable idea of what rubber to go with.

 

After a quick Google search, I actually can't even find a non-delta Maple Leaf VSR bucking under 70 degrees- I only found one link to a delta 60 degrees.

 

Honestly, given my position of trying to get this part as soon as possible, I'm ready to throw caution to the wind and go with whatever moderately-confident statement I hear first.

For this reason, I've decided I'll only buy one (in case I really would prefer to change- hell maybe this one will last anyway).

Knowing what you do about my situation, what is your personal recommendation? Understanding that if listening to you bites me in the :censored2:, it's my own fault ;)

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This is not an AEG though. VSR packings behave differently as their cross sectional thickness is much greater and with a rigid arm for the nub. While softer rubbers will indeed work, the added material lends to more mush so adjustment between setting is actually farther and harder to dial in. They also take out more energy from the projectile just to get heavier bbs spinning properly. In the long run, having soft buckings with a hot gun will mean premature wear on the contact patch of the rubber which translates to irregular backspin.

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FYI I'm using a Tanaka M40A1 with the chamber conversion to VSR- probably not important, just figured I'd be clear.

 

Normally I'd reach a very solid conclusion before a purchase, but I think I'm gonna go ahead and commit to the non-delta Maple Leaf 70 degree.

 

I'll post back here with how it turned out after getting some firing in.

Meanwhile, any input still [perpetually] welcomed (seriously, regardless of a purchase, I'd like to hear any input available). Thanks for the contributions guys!

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Actually further research necessary- according to this:

http://nebula.wsimg.com/obj/QTIzRUFFNzMzM0JDNzQ0OUI4NzE6MzVkNmMyMDc5YjRhMzFhZWMwYTUzMThmMjY4NjdhMjU6Ojo6OjA=

 

The Monster also has a built-in nub up there- now trying to figure out the difference between Monster, Diamond, and Delta (all Maple Leaf Options may have nubs?)...

 

Will be editing this post with pertinent information.

 

EDIT:

 

Awesome video explaining one of Maple Leaf's products (Diamond?):

 

 

Found here:

http://www.airsoftsociety.com/forums/f9/maple-leaf-diamond-vsr-10-bucking-68490/

 

EDIT EDIT:

 

Theories on three options:

http://www.airsoftsniperforum.com/41-vsr-rifles/14077-new-maple-leaf-delta.html

 

Note that the Diamond and Monster pictures show identical BB contact region- so wtf is Delta? Given the pictures of Maple Leaf's products (example: http://www.airsoftatlanta.com/Maple-Leaf-Hop-Up-Rubber-70-Degree-p/44173.htm), my theory is that their bucking structures are identical; and Diamond, Monster, and Delta refer to the three durometer options (70, 75, 80). Still unsure...

 

EDIT EDIT EDIT:

 

Monster, Diamond, and Delta do not refer to durometer, should have been obvious.

 

The following site again shows Monster as having the two-pronged contact patch (like in the video):

http://www.popularairsoft.com/news/maple-leaf-aeg-gbb-hop-rubbers

 

A link inside a link above shows Delta may be the exact opposite of a good idea- a single contact point dead center? Or maybe it's designed to be a smooth 'neutral' which still utilizes the idea of R-hop (creating an environment at zero hop-up where the rubber is flush with the inside of the barrel)? Not sure:

http://www.airsofttaiwan.com/shop/goods.php?id=1123

 

EDIT EDIT EDIT EDIT:

 

Aaaaaand just when I thought I had something narrowed down - "Well multiple sources line up to show Monster as having the two-contact-point design." - the following site contradicts this- showing the Monster as having the same structure as my last link (the 'neutral' or 'worst idea ever'- can't tell):

https://overhoppers.wordpress.com/2013/08/01/maple-leaf-hop-up-bucking-for-aeg/

 

I can feel my sanity fading.

 

EDIT EDIT EDIT EDIT EDIT:

 

The following site vaguely lists "Maple Leaf Marui/WE/KJ 70 Degree Hop Up Bucking" with no reference to the words 'Monster', 'Delta', or 'Diamond', and states "The hop up knob is similar to a flat hop":

http://www.airsoftgi.com/product_info.php?products_id=13391

 

Although the item is not for a VSR, this site shows Monster as having the same 'neutral' design as other sources. We are now in the Twilight Zone, where there is an equal amount of information for both of two opposing claims...

http://www.torontoairsoft.com/Maple-Leaf-Monster-Hop-Up-Bucking--75_p_3662.html

Edited by yayapfool

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Blame horrible product promotions. From what I understand, Delta is a smooth surface but has a triangular shape hence "delta". Diamond looks to be the notched type which is supposed to help center the bb for even pressure. Monster applies both the notched contact surface and triangular shape. Personally I've only used A+ myself which is closest to the Delta design but also has a slight concavity to center the bb. I've shot other people's GBBRs with Maple Leafs in them and they were handling .30g pretty well though I'm unsure which type was in them.

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Blame horrible product promotions. From what I understand, Delta is a smooth surface but has a triangular shape hence "delta". Diamond looks to be the notched type which is supposed to help center the bb for even pressure. Monster applies both the notched contact surface and triangular shape. Personally I've only used A+ myself which is closest to the Delta design but also has a slight concavity to center the bb. I've shot other people's GBBRs with Maple Leafs in them and they were handling .30g pretty well though I'm unsure which type was in them.

 

Thanks.

 

I also think Diamond is the notched one- I think I'll have to give up my search for confidence and just make a 'YOLO' purchase of what I hope is the notched version.

As stated, will return with results.

 

EDIT:

 

Purchased here, which shows the desired design:

http://www.airsoftoutletnw.com/maple-leaf-tokyo-marui-gbb-70-degree-hop-up-bucking

Edited by yayapfool

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The bucking has arrived!

 

TL;DR: The bucking I bought (http://www.airsoftoutletnw.com/maple-leaf-tokyo-marui-gbb-70-degree-hop-up-bucking) says 'Monster' on the packaging. The structure of the rubber is as depicted in the link's pictures, having a notch on the BB contact patch. Leaving the hard questions aside, one thing is certain; the use of this bucking results in a massive reduction in necessary amount of hop pressure. I'm quite happy with the bucking.

 

More info...

 

I believe a large portion of the reason this bucking requires so much less downward force is due to its robust design- you are required to remove the small bridge of metal on the end your barrel on the top, hop-up side (file carefully! Ask me for more info on how I did this safely) to accommodate the thickness of the rubber on the top side of the bucking. The other reason, I believe, this rubber requires so little pressure to backspin BB's, is displayed in the video in a post above (

)- the design of the rubber allows for a significantly longer period of time where the BB is in contact with the rubber, causing greater grip/backspin.

 

For all of the reasons above, I also foresee this rubber lasting significantly longer than my last, and most in general. Due to upper thickness, this rubber is stretched less than normal, due to a larger contact patch, this rubber is again stretched less than normal, due again to the large contact patch, the wear of a single shot is dispersed as opposed to concentrated, and due again to the large contact patch, less wear occurs overall each shot, as a better system is used to cause backspin.

 

The 70 degree rubber feels great. I might be totally off base with this non-scientific thought, but the durometer just feels perfect. It feels soft enough that I trust it has consistent gripping power, and feels a bit harder than my old Nine Ball (which tore). Comparing this bucking to my Nine Ball, I would guess that the durometer of the Nine Ball was between 50 and 70 degrees- my guess of 60.

 

Using this bucking with my EdGI 6.03 barrel (and endless other upgrades/mods) and .4g BB's (not the best, Madbull I think), I am consistently hitting a head-sized target at ~50 meters. I'm unsatisfied with my tests, and given an opportunity, I'd like to use my better BB's to record actual groupings etc. with both this setup, and a setup with a rectangular nub as opposed to my current ^ shaped one.

 

Feel free to ask anything relevant...or irrelevant?

Edited by yayapfool

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