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7h39

P90 DMR PROJECT

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HI! I'm really enjoing my current stock TM P90, but I want to mod it to a dmr-like one 'cose I really like the bullup desing, lightness and ergonomics.


So, I'm asking some advice about how to do it. Please notice that I play in Italy where the maximum power is 1J or about 330fps with 0.2g bb.


First: the barrel.


How Long? I read somewhere (multiple times) that 455mm is the most precise legnth, is it right? Sizing the cylinder to the barrel is not a problem, so what lenght do you suggest to me?


BTW, I'm planning to hide it with a CA HK51 (A077M) External Barrel if it is too long, or a Madbull PS90 (MBPS90) ext. barrel replica if shorter.


Which Bore and brand? I really don't know what to do here... 6.01 PDI Raven Tightbore, Prometheus 6.03 Tightbore, MagicBox 6.06 Miraclebarrel or Orga Magnus 6.13/6.23 widebore?? Plase help! Which is the best for range and accuracy in your hopinion?


Side question: I heard that AEG have some trouble with widebores like Magnus' ones... how do I overcome it? a stronger spring? a bore-up air kit? what else?


Second: Hop-up


I read many times that TM chamber is the best one.. so I guess I'll don't need a pro win one, what do you think about?


For the bucking I'm going for a maple leaf, do you wish to suggest me another one? what nub I shoul use with it?


Third: Cylinder Head


I was thinking that the v.6 offset nozzle on the cylinder head will cause some sort of vortex or inconstinstency with air compression, compared with v3-v2 centred one... do you know something to overcome it? I found an interesting ASG V.6 Ultimate Cylinder Head with a sort of "Thrumpet Desing" that "optimize" Airflow... do you have any experience with this part? I can't really choose between the Ultimate and the Modify Cylinder Head.




Thx for reading! please help me, I'm anxious to read your suggestions!

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I want to mod it to a dmr

 

1J or about 330fps with 0.2g bb.

Not gonna happen. You just won't have enough energy to send bbs far enough and be consistently felt as solid hits. Out of the box your TM should already be doing 0.8J and that extra to 1J will give you maybe an extra 10m effective range at most.

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THX for your reply, I understand that's a very low power compared with 500fps stadards elsewhere, but I would really prefere focus on high accuracy and a slight outranging (compared to other rifles of the same power), instead of make it a bb spitting machine (High rof).

 

 

I'll already planned the majority of "FPS" upgrades to reach the maximum allowed, I think they are pretty strightforward, but I was struggling on "finesse" ones.

 

Bonus question: I read that also with bore up kits and very strong springs, large bore orga (.23 I guess) barrels don't work well for aeg..is this true? Do you advise me against a orga barrel?

Edited by 7h39

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Orga 6.23mm or any wide bore don't fare well with AEGs (even with a bore up, which doesn't really add all that much) due to limited air supply. A lot of it is used for blow-by which creates the air cushion that allegedly makes it work. It's not that you won't see gains in precision, just that to get it shooting 1J you'll need something like an M120 spring to compensate. Your gearbox just gets an unecessary beating when you can get the same precision gains from a weaker spring and a better hop rubber.

You can accurize your P90 if that's what you mean by DMRing it though. Quality inner barrel (preferably stainless as it vibrates less) + flat hop + heavy bbs and improvements in air seal for consistency.

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Yhea maybe "accurize" is the right word, althrough I mean to use it in semiauto that have some of dmr flavor, isn't it?

 

What quality inner barrel do you suggest? Miracle barrels 6.06 or promheteus 6.03? Is 6.01 off the table or is still a valid choice for 50mt range?

 

Last but not least, 430 or 455mm lenght have better accuracy over the stock 247mm?

 

THX for your patience and sorry for the ask-cascade

 

Edit: I have also the chance to buy an orga Leox 6.05 or an orga magnus HD 6.13 (could an m110 fulfill the 1j standard?)

Edited by 7h39

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DMR is a stop gap between an assault weapon and a sniper rifle. Just having semi auto, a longer barrel and a scope doesn't really meet the criteria of being a DMR both practically (1J is CQB power levels) and realistically (5.7x28mm through a rifle is only really good up to 300m).

 

If you can afford Prometheus, get that.

 

433mm and 455mm will have nearly no noticeable difference in precision provided they are the same brand and bore. Both will only be marginally better than the stock 247mm because TM makes great barrels out of the box, and barrel length doesn't play much into precision. I've made sniper pistols with 250mm inner barrels which outperform full fledged rifles.

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What the "Cow" says ^

 

Remember these are all BLOW GUN's shooting the 6mm ball.

 

What the replica represents in no way gives you an advantage over another 6mm platform.

 

Velocity at the muzzle is the velocity at the muzzle, so a 330fps out of the 250mm barrel is the same as 330fps out of a 455mm barrel. Only advantage of a 455mm barrel is that you are 200mm closer to your target.

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LOL

 

I'm doing that 'cose I really like the platform, as I said , for ergonomics, bullpup, weight and shape and I want it to mod it to serve the gameplay that I like the most.

 

But I understand also that within the legal restrictions of my country is difficult to pull off a real dmr, because of that I'm trying to collect every tiny bit of cosistency, range increase, accuracy increase etc. to have an overall discrete gain.

 

For the airsoft trajectory project the maximum effective range for 1j and .25g is 100ft. I think that's a teorical average and not a practical maximum, so I'm looking to stretch it to 160-180ft with a good accuracy (human body target at maximum range of course). Do you think I'm overestimating the possible gains? Can I do better?

 

My question are:

1. Seems general consensus that 455mm is the most accurate length. Is this true or is an obsolete belief?

 

2. In airsoftsniperforum they talk about barrel bore related to engagement distance: 6.01 cqb, 6.03 medium range, 6.05 medium to long, 6,1 and over for long range, while 6.06 miracle barrels are a catch all solution. Which do you think it is the best barrel bore in term of accuracy (tighter groupings) and/or range increase in my case? What's your position on miracle barrels?

 

3. The airsoft trajectory project writes that .25g bb are the best with 1j energy, do you think it's right or do you suggest a heavier bb weight with the help of a particular hopup design/brand?

 

4. Flat hop or Zhop (even EZ hop..but is too risky for the barrel?) or maple leaf stock bucking?(I assume flat nub is defoult)

 

5.p90 has an offset nozzle cylinder head, and this could imply some sort of vortex in air while compressing. I found asg ultimate v6 cylinder head with a "trumpet design"that should ease airflow, do you think that's just marketing thing (and I can just use a modify double or head) or it could have some benefit?

 

Thx for reading all this stuff, and helping me.

As always I'm open to any sort of advice

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1. Pretty much. Longer than that sees only marginal gains in precision.

2. Edgi 6.01 barrels in 100m VSR-10 sniper rifles pretty much debunks that bore-to-use idea. And hop up = range, not bore diameter.

3. More or less. .30g will fly more true and get you your desired 160-180ft range, but that'll cut you back 60fps making it very easy to dodge bbs at 50m.

4. Flat hop. Easier to do and you won't get as much performance gains with more radical hop mods while sticking to 1J.

5. From my experience the cone shaped cylinder heads only serve to increase fps by virtue of venturi effect.

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LOL

 

I'm doing that 'cose I really like the platform, as I said , for ergonomics, bullpup, weight and shape and I want it to mod it to serve the gameplay that I like the most.

 

But I understand also that within the legal restrictions of my country is difficult to pull off a real dmr, because of that I'm trying to collect every tiny bit of cosistency, range increase, accuracy increase etc. to have an overall discrete gain.

 

For the airsoft trajectory project the maximum effective range for 1j and .25g is 100ft. I think that's a teorical average and not a practical maximum, so I'm looking to stretch it to 160-180ft with a good accuracy (human body target at maximum range of course). Do you think I'm overestimating the possible gains? Can I do better?

 

My question are:

1. Seems general consensus that 455mm is the most accurate length. Is this true or is an obsolete belief?

 

2. In airsoftsniperforum they talk about barrel bore related to engagement distance: 6.01 cqb, 6.03 medium range, 6.05 medium to long, 6,1 and over for long range, while 6.06 miracle barrels are a catch all solution. Which do you think it is the best barrel bore in term of accuracy (tighter groupings) and/or range increase in my case? What's your position on miracle barrels?

 

3. The airsoft trajectory project writes that .25g bb are the best with 1j energy, do you think it's right or do you suggest a heavier bb weight with the help of a particular hopup design/brand?

 

4. Flat hop or Zhop (even EZ hop..but is too risky for the barrel?) or maple leaf stock bucking?(I assume flat nub is defoult)

 

5.p90 has an offset nozzle cylinder head, and this could imply some sort of vortex in air while compressing. I found asg ultimate v6 cylinder head with a "trumpet design"that should ease airflow, do you think that's just marketing thing (and I can just use a modify double or head) or it could have some benefit?

 

Thx for reading all this stuff, and helping me.

As always I'm open to any sort of advice

Do you play video games a lot and upgrade items in that game? It seems that your train of thinking is defined part A give defined performance increase Y. We'll things don''t work like that. AEG's are a system and really quite complex.

 

1. I personally find 363/365 to be the most accurate, but in reality the 3.75" of barrel is really small. Rather BORE consistency is far more important over the length.

2. Airsoftsniper forum is "wrong", so to get more range you open the bore up to allow more pressure blow by to increase range? That makes no sense.

3. You need to know the Law of Inertia:

 

Newton's first law of motion - sometimes referred to as the law of inertia. An object at rest stays at rest and an object in motion stays in motion with the same speed and in the same direction unless acted upon by another force.

 

Your known factors are limited force (1J Spring), an object the "bb", Air Resistance and Gravity.

 

What do you think is going to happen when you up the bb weight, but all else stays constant?

 

4. Then you must consider the Magnus Effect:

 

maxresdefault.jpg

If you put in a better "hop-up" that puts a good spin on the bb, you will lose less FPS. That is why Flat Hop or Maple Leaf systems are good..better backspin...less fps loss.

 

5. The nozzle design has very little in getting the bb to fly better. It is designed to get the mechbox into the frame so it looks like a P90. If off setting it would improve flight characteristics, TM would put that in all of their designs.

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Just the other day, we had a discussion with DSG and HPA. The player base have changed.

I know a lot of dsg and hpa players from around the US. most don't use full auto unless they are required to get rid of someone not calling their hits.

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Guest alberty

I know a lot of dsg and hpa players from around the US. most don't use full auto unless they are required to get rid of someone not calling their hits.

 

Probably wasn't implied, they were just talking about DSG and HPA and how that's common knowledge/technology now for advanced builds or expensive range of builds.

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That's why I keep on truckin with GBB and NBBs. I get a speedballer out with a clean, snapshot kill and when he comes over in the safe zone to make small talk about how great my gun is, gets his mind shattered that it's gas and that I'm running 10% his combat load capacity. Makes my day every time.

Edited by renegadecow

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That's why I keep on truckin with GBB and NBBs. I get a speedballer out with a clean, snapshot kill and when he comes over in the safe zone to make small talk about how great my gun is, gets his mind shattered that it's gas and that I'm running 10% his combat load capacity. Makes my day every time.

speedball=paintball speedsoft=airsoft ;))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) lol. and that's really sweet haha.

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I honestly don't have a problem with people playing speedsoft or hardcore milsim. It's a game to have fun after all and people should enjoy the game and not using it as their own ego trip. Which unfortunately I've seen a lot of these videos lately.

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Buy a CQB gun, Wants to shoot long range. I fail to see the logic.

 

Then again, it's airsoft. Or is it Speedsoft now-a-days. I must be getting old.

Is that really such a terrible thing? I think it's cool to take CQB guns and make them something unique, thought OP won't be able to do a full DMR. Why is it so bad that he wants to make a gun into a DMR? Not every pickup game is speedsoft, either. I'm not arguing this point in a technical sense, but in a sense of the "dang kids these days" attitude you have. Why all the sarcasm?

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I honestly have no experience whatsoever with these kinds of things but I would like to say you could probably do some spring guide things, modify the cylinder to run with a 500x6.03mm barrel, use .25s get a full set of maple leaf bucking+hopup nub+barrel(all maple leaf brand) shim your spring guide to increase fps to be just under the joule limit, get some sort of red dot because a scope would be completely useless at the ranges u'll be engaging at. And also I think you could break the joule limit and add a supressor of some sort to your gun which would lower its fps and obviously decrease sound if it has foam in it but you'd have to do a bunch of other things to decrease gearbox sound. That's my two cents

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Look at the Art of Upgrades topic for good upgrade parts. maple Leaf doesn't see, too bad but you should probably look into $40-$60 for a good barrel, I've never seen Maple Leaf recommended barrel-wise.

 

You might want a decent 4x scope, red dots aren't always enough at long range, to say nothing of accuracy and precision.

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Look at the Art of Upgrades topic for good upgrade parts. maple Leaf doesn't see, too bad but you should probably look into $40-$60 for a good barrel, I've never seen Maple Leaf recommended barrel-wise.

 

You might want a decent 4x scope, red dots aren't always enough at long range, to say nothing of accuracy and precision.

he has a 1 joule limit, thats 400 fps with a .2, I highly doubt he'd need a scope for that range of 200ft

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I love looking back onto my stuff to see that im wrong on stuff.

He should flat hop it and use any bb weight he wants up to .28 as it isnt much of an fps decrease and if hes legit going for range then the heavier bbs willbe more accurate(if the right brand is used ofc) and have a shorter travel time because heavier bbs lose speed alot less than lower weight bbs n stuff. I'd reccomend getting a cylinder for a 455mm barrel then buying a PDI like this https://ampedairsoft.com/pdi-6-05mm-stainless-barrel-aeg-455mm/ to fit it, then get some sort of scope if it reaches out past 240 ft. This is an absolutely ridiculous build and I love it. The reason for these parts are: PDI because it has a window made for the flat hop, get some heavier bbs because they work better with accuracy and travel time and volume right because you don't want joule creep in japan or undervoluming either.

Edited by jroble95

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