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Looking for an upgrade platform!

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Budget: $270 Very maximum


Model Preference: Love me some o' dat m4 goodness :tongue:

Where you play: I play in both CQB and field, and in the long run I want to be taking this gun to both.

Role: I want to be able to fit into any role, although more of an assault role if you will - although I mean, an airsoft gun is an airsoft gun and doesn't really make the role.


I am currently considering:


The Evike Custom Madbull Licensed Troy Industries M7A1 Custom Airsoft AEG - http://www.evike.com/products/54707/


I want to end up shoving a bunch of upgrades in the gun, it will be my first experience with teching. Basically I just need a solid gun thats inexpensive, nice and short (max 7" rails) and has a lot of upgrade potential. I can share more details on my upgrade map later but out of the box I am looking at adding:

Battery (I will get stock mag pouch thingy for storage)- https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-nano-tech-4000mah-3s-35-70c-lipo-pack.html

MOSFET - NukeFet

Barrel - Whatever really, looking at a prommy for the ICS.

Bucking - Flat-hopped lonex 50d or 70d (don't know which)

Nub - Prommy flat nub (I'm lazy)


Thanks!


P.s. The $270 figure doesn't include the upgrades, it's just for the gun.


Edit - Details and formatting

Edited by cool name here?

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If this is your only gun, then I would HIGHLY suggest you do not use this as a learning platform. Do the learning on a spare.

 

At this point you need skill more than upgrades. Many of the upgrades you cite are dated and overpriced.

 

Play 10 games and learn the weakness of your AEG BEFORE you swap parts out. You may be replacing a perfectly good part with an part that would not give you any improvement overstock. This ends up being a waste of money and you really gain no experience.

 

It's like prepping a vehicle for a race. Do you just jam junk in and hopes it works well or do you take it out on the track and determine the weaknesses and then address them?

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If this is your only gun, then I would HIGHLY suggest you do not use this as a learning platform. Do the learning on a spare.

 

At this point you need skill more than upgrades. Many of the upgrades you cite are dated and overpriced.

 

Play 10 games and learn the weakness of your AEG BEFORE you swap parts out. You may be replacing a perfectly good part with an part that would not give you any improvement overstock. This ends up being a waste of money and you really gain no experience.

 

It's like prepping a vehicle for a race. Do you just jam junk in and hopes it works well or do you take it out on the track and determine the weaknesses and then address them?

I do already have two reliable guns I can use while I work on this one, not to mention I only play airsoft once or twice a month, but I would be able to tech most days/weekends. The problem is getting to the fields for me, not so much not having the time.

 

What, in your mind, is the best way to build skill? I'm not new to DIY projects, I've built a number of computers, an arcade machine and other odds and ends, and I'm a self taught (now professional) web developer so I'm pretty good at following guides on the internet and paying attention to forums. I've also mucked around with hopups and mosfets on my current gun (a JG clone of the G&P m7a1, by coincidence), so I'm pretty confident there too.

 

Which upgrades are dated? It's literally a good battery (so I can use it with a high-speed build later on) a basic MOSFET and a flat hop tbb setup. What is wrong with that? I don't mean to sound ungrateful with your advice, but would you be able to elaborate for me, please? I mean, the battery is no biggie, I already have one which I could use instead, until I get the parts which would dictate the need for the bigger battery (I've been talking to Louis Brill of Brill armory who is helping me with this build also), the gun doesn't have a MOSFET so obviously that is an upgrade, the G&P stock bucking isn't very good and the barrel is just stock as well, so I don't see the problems with these upgrades. You call them overpriced, but the only things I see as being overpriced personally is the Prommy TBB and Prommy nub, which I picked for convenience (I'll probably end up doing an eraser nub, and if I get the m7a1 I'll have the option of a cheaper barrel) Have I missed something? What would you recommend instead?

 

Also, from other corners of the interwebz I have been advised by ICS owners to go with the G&P because the ICS CXP split GB design has a proprietary spring guide and the GB isn't the strongest. That's one point for the G&P in my eyes.

 

So all in all, which would you recommend out of the two, or do you have other contenders to throw into the mix. Remember, everyone has to start somewhere!

 

Thanks.

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cool name here?, on 14 Mar 2017 - 9:59 PM, said:

 

“What, in your mind, is the best way to build skill?”

 

Play at a disadvantage. Use SA only against players that use FA. Or run pistols/shotgun against AEG’s.

 

“I'm not new to DIY projects, I've built a number of computers, an arcade machine and other odds and ends, and I'm a self taught (now professional) web developer so I'm pretty good at following guides on the internet and paying attention to forums. I've also mucked around with hopups and mosfets on my current gun (a JG clone of the G&P m7a1, by coincidence), so I'm pretty confident there too.”

 

I built PC and Servers too...way back when over 2 decades ago.

But, Airsoft is not quite the same. This is due to there being no "standard", just guide lines for parts and components.

 

“Which upgrades are dated?”

 

The Lonex packing is not the newer type designs. They still use the barrel design versus the newer designs which incorporate Diamond and Delta Contact patches.

 

“It's literally a good battery (so I can use it with a high-speed build later on) a basic MOSFET and a flat hop tbb setup What is wrong with that? I don't mean to sound ungrateful with your advice, but would you be able to elaborate for me, please? I mean, the battery is no biggie, I already have one which I could use instead, until I get the parts which would dictate the need for the bigger battery (I've been talking to Louis Brill of Brill armory who is helping me with this build also), the gun doesn't have a MOSFET so obviously that is an upgrade, the G&P stock bucking isn't very good and the barrel is just stock as well, so I don't see the problems with these upgrades.”

No disrespect to Brill, but I don't know him and he does not know me. However, I can tell you I have been using Airsoft in the US since the 1980's. Just curious, as him if he remembers the place that used to sell TM's for $450.00 a piece. The place I am thinking about was named after a plane. If he can answer it, it kind of carbon dates his experience and background.

 

3S 11.1V – In the old days you needed the voltage to overdrive a motor for faster RPS. New HT/HS motors makes this obsolete. You can run 2S and exceed some older builds on RPS.

My AEG in this video runs on a 2S, but it hits 25rps at 398fps. Start at 2:00 mark.

 

 

“You call them overpriced, but the only things I see as being overpriced personally is the Prommy TBB and Prommy nub, which I picked for convenience (I'll probably end up doing an eraser nub, and if I get the m7a1 I'll have the option of a cheaper barrel) Have I missed something? What would you recommend instead?”

 

I recommend that you don’t buy any parts until you see the stock parts. Don’t assume stock parts are junk. I pulled a 365mm barrel out of a G&P (once) and I was quite surprised at the finishing level. Inner surface was glass smooth (held up to light and saw no extrusion/finishing marks) and ID was 6.04mm. Yeah, it was brass…but that did not really matter. Saved the cost of a new “high quality” barrel.

 

“Also, from other corners of the interwebz I have been advised by ICS owners to go with the G&P because the ICS CXP split GB design has a proprietary spring guide and the GB isn't the strongest. That's one point for the G&P in my eyes.”

 

This is accurate to a point. What they do not tell you is that there are varying grades of G&P. There are “economy” models and the quality of the material is not the same. Sadly Evike is on the low end side of these materials (this is due in part to the US Airsofters themselves…). Here are some pictures that I have of the two grades of piston used. US Economy Model on right, Asian Model on left

 

https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8213/8312927780_f93c5c2cf4_b.jpg

 

Fewer metal teeth. Again Asian on Left, US Economy on Right.

 

https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8222/8312926084_760cb944b7_b.jpg

 

“So all in all, which would you recommend out of the two, or do you have other contenders to throw into the mix. Remember, everyone has to start somewhere!”

 

Which is why I am glad you are asking.

 

How about an Asian Model Sentry – Viper for 298.00 Shipped? Like this one.

 

http://shop.ehobbyasia.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/G/P/GP902_1a_MARK.jpg

Already in the US and ready to ship to you. I have a few extra from a bulk buy for our club.

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cool name here?, on 14 Mar 2017 - 9:59 PM, said:

 

“What, in your mind, is the best way to build skill?”

 

Play at a disadvantage. Use SA only against players that use FA. Or run pistols/shotgun against AEG’s.

 

“I'm not new to DIY projects, I've built a number of computers, an arcade machine and other odds and ends, and I'm a self taught (now professional) web developer so I'm pretty good at following guides on the internet and paying attention to forums. I've also mucked around with hopups and mosfets on my current gun (a JG clone of the G&P m7a1, by coincidence), so I'm pretty confident there too.”

 

I built PC and Servers too...way back when over 2 decades ago.

But, Airsoft is not quite the same. This is due to there being no "standard", just guide lines for parts and components.

 

“Which upgrades are dated?”

 

The Lonex packing is not the newer type designs. They still use the barrel design versus the newer designs which incorporate Diamond and Delta Contact patches.

 

“It's literally a good battery (so I can use it with a high-speed build later on) a basic MOSFET and a flat hop tbb setup What is wrong with that? I don't mean to sound ungrateful with your advice, but would you be able to elaborate for me, please? I mean, the battery is no biggie, I already have one which I could use instead, until I get the parts which would dictate the need for the bigger battery (I've been talking to Louis Brill of Brill armory who is helping me with this build also), the gun doesn't have a MOSFET so obviously that is an upgrade, the G&P stock bucking isn't very good and the barrel is just stock as well, so I don't see the problems with these upgrades.”

 

No disrespect to Brill, but I don't know him and he does not know me. However, I can tell you I have been using Airsoft in the US since the 1980's. Just curious, as him if he remembers the place that used to sell TM's for $450.00 a piece. The place I am thinking about was named after a plane. If he can answer it, it kind of carbon dates his experience and background.

 

3S 11.1V – In the old days you needed the voltage to overdrive a motor for faster RPS. New HT/HS motors makes this obsolete. You can run 2S and exceed some older builds on RPS.

My AEG in this video runs on a 2S, but it hits 25rps at 398fps. Start at 2:00 mark.

 

 

“You call them overpriced, but the only things I see as being overpriced personally is the Prommy TBB and Prommy nub, which I picked for convenience (I'll probably end up doing an eraser nub, and if I get the m7a1 I'll have the option of a cheaper barrel) Have I missed something? What would you recommend instead?”

 

I recommend that you don’t buy any parts until you see the stock parts. Don’t assume stock parts are junk. I pulled a 365mm barrel out of a G&P (once) and I was quite surprised at the finishing level. Inner surface was glass smooth (held up to light and saw no extrusion/finishing marks) and ID was 6.04mm. Yeah, it was brass…but that did not really matter. Saved the cost of a new “high quality” barrel.

 

“Also, from other corners of the interwebz I have been advised by ICS owners to go with the G&P because the ICS CXP split GB design has a proprietary spring guide and the GB isn't the strongest. That's one point for the G&P in my eyes.”

 

This is accurate to a point. What they do not tell you is that there are varying grades of G&P. There are “economy” models and the quality of the material is not the same. Sadly Evike is on the low end side of these materials (this is due in part to the US Airsofters themselves…). Here are some pictures that I have of the two grades of piston used. US Economy Model on right, Asian Model on left

 

https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8213/8312927780_f93c5c2cf4_b.jpg

 

Fewer metal teeth. Again Asian on Left, US Economy on Right.

 

https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8222/8312926084_760cb944b7_b.jpg

 

“So all in all, which would you recommend out of the two, or do you have other contenders to throw into the mix. Remember, everyone has to start somewhere!”

 

Which is why I am glad you are asking.

 

How about an Asian Model Sentry – Viper for 298.00 Shipped? Like this one.

 

http://shop.ehobbyasia.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/G/P/GP902_1a_MARK.jpg

 

Already in the US and ready to ship to you. I have a few extra from a bulk buy for our club.

For the skill part, I've spent enough time at a disadvantage :P, I'm wanting to build a nice gun. I thought you meant skill teching, lol.

 

For lonex having an outdated mound (I assume that's what "packing" means), would you still recommend for flat-hop?

 

Brill is pretty respected in the teching community and has built some pretty good guns. He is also the owner of Brill armoury. He has helped me to pick out parts, but he only really uses AKs so I wanted your guys' help for a V2 build. I didn't mean to insult your intelligence or experience, sorry.

 

The problem is, I live in NZ and I'm getting the stuff imported via a friend, and in NZ everything is way overpriced, or near impossible to get (except for BBs, we have really nice BBs for a good price). So I'd like to get a bunch of things at once.

 

I didn't realise G&P OEMed different versions, as I live in the Asian sphere over here I was quite surprised. From what I'd seen and heard I thought that there was only one V2 gearbox being pumped out of the G&P factories and that was why G&P got so popular because you knew what you were getting. What parts usually differ? I plan to do a high-speed build, so I would replace the piston head, but if it uses a totally different GB and won't accept some upgrades because of proprietary parts then I'm screwed.

 

I would like to take you up on that offer, however, on the permits for importing the guns, I believe I need to list a retailer, and some other details I'd have to get from you. It would also work out well because you could test it out, open it up and tell me what needs replacing out of the barrel, bucking and nub straight off the bat. However, I don't know how long it would be before I could buy the gun off you (minimum 2 weeks if I applied for a permit today), so if you want to sell it fast, you may as well put it up on eBay or something.

 

Also, how much was shipping from eHobby Asia? If it's not much I can most easily get one straight from there, so you aren't waiting 1-2 months for your money.

 

Thanks for all your help, once again.

 

 

Edit: Shipping is $66 USD :/

Edited by cool name here?

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“For the skill part, I've spent enough time at a disadvantage :P, I'm wanting to build a nice gun. I thought you meant skill teching, lol.”

 

You can get teching skill by taking a wreck and making it run smooth. This is much harder with middle to high-end AEG's.

“For lonex having an outdated mound (I assume that's what "packing" means), would you still recommend for flat-hop?”

 

Flat hop is also rather, dated. Honestly, try a new Maple leaf and Nub in the 60 degree range. Pair that with .28g bbs. I sell the set to MAA club members for 12.00. I can extend a set to you for the same price, plus shipping and handling of $8.00 - $20.00 to NZD.

“Brill is pretty respected in the teching community and has built some pretty good guns. He is also the owner of Brill armoury. He has helped me to pick out parts, but he only really uses AKs so I wanted your guys' help for a V2 build. I didn't mean to insult your intelligence or experience, sorry.”

 

No disrespect perceived, it’s not like I have my Airsoft Resume/Pedigree online or anything. My specialty was sourcing, logistics and product development. I have no doubt Brill has very good XP with AK’s, in fact far more than me. But, I am very knowledgeable about new products and cutting edge technology of which the US Internet player base is about 8 years behind (case in point, Lonex parts and flat hopping). I am not saying that the old stuff is bad, I am just saying there is better for less or better for the same cost.

 

“The problem is, I live in NZ and I'm getting the stuff imported via a friend, and in NZ everything is way overpriced, or near impossible to get (except for BBs, we have really nice BBs for a good price). So I'd like to get a bunch of things at once.”

 

Oh you have very strict restrictions. FPS and Fire Rate I believe…no AEG can enter your country with a working FA mode, correct? That Mod does add a bit to your price. In your honest opinion, what are you calling a good bb?

“I didn't realise G&P OEMed different versions, as I live in the Asian sphere over here I was quite surprised. From what I'd seen and heard I thought that there was only one V2 gearbox being pumped out of the G&P factories and that was why G&P got so popular because you knew what you were getting. What parts usually differ? I plan to do a high-speed build, so I would replace the piston head, but if it uses a totally different GB and won't accept some upgrades because of proprietary parts then I'm screwed.”

 

The Economy Models have green polymer bushings and the lover grade piston. Other nuances are small and not noticeable unless you are trained/experienced to spot them. In the USA, retailers want to fleece the mighty dollar out of uneducated Airsofter...so they had special items made at lower costs to do just that. In addition, re-branding...fake brands (house brands) that get tied to cheap China Airsoft items. Ignorant Airsoft goes and buys an item of average quality thinking it is an "upgrade" part.

"I would like to take you up on that offer, however, on the permits for importing the guns, I believe I need to list a retailer, and some other details I'd have to get from you. It would also work out well because you could test it out, open it up and tell me what needs replacing out of the barrel, bucking and nub straight off the bat. However, I don't know how long it would be before I could buy the gun off you (minimum 2 weeks if I applied for a permit today), so if you want to sell it fast, you may as well put it up on eBay or something."

 

What if this AEG came in as “parts” over multiple shipments? Would your regulations allow that to happen?

"Also, how much was shipping from eHobby Asia? If it's not much I can most easily get one straight from there, so you aren't waiting 1-2 months for your money."

 

You can run the calculator for that, but they may charge you a surcharge to have the FA disabled on your AEG.

Edited by Guges Mk3

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“For the skill part, I've spent enough time at a disadvantage :P, I'm wanting to build a nice gun. I thought you meant skill teching, lol.”

 

You can get teching skill by taking a wreck and making it run smooth. This is much harder with middle to high-end AEG's.

 

“For lonex having an outdated mound (I assume that's what "packing" means), would you still recommend for flat-hop?”

 

Flat hop is also rather, dated. Honestly, try a new Maple leaf and Nub in the 60 degree range. Pair that with .28g bbs. I sell the set to MAA club members for 12.00. I can extend a set to you for the same price, plus shipping and handling of $8.00 - $20.00 to NZD.

 

“Brill is pretty respected in the teching community and has built some pretty good guns. He is also the owner of Brill armoury. He has helped me to pick out parts, but he only really uses AKs so I wanted your guys' help for a V2 build. I didn't mean to insult your intelligence or experience, sorry.”

 

No disrespect perceived, it’s not like I have my Airsoft Resume/Pedigree online or anything. My specialty was sourcing, logistics and product development. I have no doubt Brill has very good XP with AK’s, in fact far more than me. But, I am very knowledgeable about new products and cutting edge technology of which the US Internet player base is about 8 years behind (case in point, Lonex parts and flat hopping). I am not saying that the old stuff is bad, I am just saying there is better for less or better for the same cost.

 

“The problem is, I live in NZ and I'm getting the stuff imported via a friend, and in NZ everything is way overpriced, or near impossible to get (except for BBs, we have really nice BBs for a good price). So I'd like to get a bunch of things at once.”

 

Oh you have very strict restrictions. FPS and Fire Rate I believe…no AEG can enter your country with a working FA mode, correct? That Mod does add a bit to your price. In your honest opinion, what are you calling a good bb?

 

“I didn't realise G&P OEMed different versions, as I live in the Asian sphere over here I was quite surprised. From what I'd seen and heard I thought that there was only one V2 gearbox being pumped out of the G&P factories and that was why G&P got so popular because you knew what you were getting. What parts usually differ? I plan to do a high-speed build, so I would replace the piston head, but if it uses a totally different GB and won't accept some upgrades because of proprietary parts then I'm screwed.”

 

The Economy Models have green polymer bushings and the lover grade piston. Other nuances are small and not noticeable unless you are trained/experienced to spot them. In the USA, retailers want to fleece the mighty dollar out of uneducated Airsofter...so they had special items made at lower costs to do just that. In addition, re-branding...fake brands (house brands) that get tied to cheap China Airsoft items. Ignorant Airsoft goes and buys an item of average quality thinking it is an "upgrade" part.

 

"I would like to take you up on that offer, however, on the permits for importing the guns, I believe I need to list a retailer, and some other details I'd have to get from you. It would also work out well because you could test it out, open it up and tell me what needs replacing out of the barrel, bucking and nub straight off the bat. However, I don't know how long it would be before I could buy the gun off you (minimum 2 weeks if I applied for a permit today), so if you want to sell it fast, you may as well put it up on eBay or something."

 

What if this AEG came in as “parts” over multiple shipments? Would your regulations allow that to happen?

 

"Also, how much was shipping from eHobby Asia? If it's not much I can most easily get one straight from there, so you aren't waiting 1-2 months for your money."

 

You can run the calculator for that, but they may charge you a surcharge to have the FA disabled on your AEG.

Don't worry about shipping to NZ, I have someone who travels to America very regularly who plays airsoft and brings airsoft guns and parts back all the time.

 

I was looking at the maple leaf combo previously but there still seemed to be a disagreement among techs which was best, and I thought that if I got flat hop, I would have one less step to do if I was to rhop my gun (I assume you have seen reliku's video on maple leaf vs rhop vs flat hop also?). For that price, though I would definitely want to pick it up, and that'll be more than accurate enough I'm sure. How much would shipping to Los Angeles be?

 

I know our restrictions. Its not strict at all. The only restriction is if we are bringing in an airsoft gun we need a permit (takes 1-2 weeks). We used to have a semi only restriction, but that was changed 3-4 years ago, however CQB places are still semi only, but we do have (what I believe to be) a slightly higher FPS limit ~370-390 for CQB. We have fully automatic at most outdoor fields, though. I am looking to do a high speed ssg build, so there wouldn't be much of a point if it was semi only lol.

 

Thanks for letting me know, I would have fallen into the same trap!

 

The AEG coming in parts would be fine, but the extra hassle is not worth it to be honest. If you are willing to wait, I should be able to pay you in about 4 weeks (I need to get the paperwork in order before I do).

 

I did end up checking and its $66 flat rate to NZ, so not really an option for me.

 

I will send you a direct message to discuss the gun and maple leaf bucking and nub further.

 

Thank you for all your help already!

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Reliku's...no I know nothing of him.

 

I did just google him....and his explanation is pretty good. His post is Aug 2016. I was citing the advantages of ML products in middle of 2015.

Yeah. that's my nature finding the innovative items and trying them out way before the general public even knows they exist.

 

That is my role as the Club Broker of the MAA...now if I just drop things on a Table in MN. No one questions my judgement. :tongue:

Edited by Guges Mk3

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Reliku's...no I know nothing of him.

 

I did just google him....and his explanation is pretty good. His post is Aug 2016. I was citing the advantages of ML products in middle of 2015.

 

Yeah. that's my nature finding the innovative items and trying them out way before the general public even knows they exist.

 

That is my role as the Club Broker of the MAA...now if I just drop things on a Table in MN. No one questions my judgement. :tongue:

Haha that's awesome! I guess once I start assembling the rest of my parts to make a high-speed ssg out of the gun (following legacy's guide) I'll run them by you as well.

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