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Hello!

I am in the process of upgrading my Elite Force/Umarex Tavor-21 Elite.

Overall, I love the rifle. I like the feel, the weight, and how reliable it is.

I am posting because I have some questions regarding upgrading and the gears that I can't find answers for.

When I first disassembled my gearbox, all of the gears looks like the teeth had been scrapped and shaved. They worked fine, but they definitely saw some wear after only two games. I thought re-shimming would do the trick, so I began to shim, and it helped a lot with the sound!

I recently ordered some other upgrade parts to help with the air compression in the cylinder, as the stock part was an all-in-one cylinder+cylinder head, a terrible air nozzle without a o-ring, and a piston that whiffed through through the cylinder without any resistance. I cracked it open again after fielding it for the 3rd time, and the gears still seemed to take some wear and tear. (I'm currently running an M120 irregular spring, different from the M110 regular)

I want to make sure my Tavor handles 450-500 fps, as I'm building my own field with a collection of friends, and (we like the battle scars) we prefer to play at higher fps's. My question is, what type of high-torque gears that are regular spurs and not helical, would you recommend?

I'm looking into the High Torque/High Speed Lonex short-type motor, but all the gears I'm looking for that have 4-star+ ratings are helical, and I don't want to go cheap on the gears. I'm not interested in the HElical gears, as that means I've have to get a new piston and spend more time shimming, and I've already shimmed the stock gears to the best of my ability. I just installed some new parts, and would hate to have to order different parts just to fit new gears. Below are the upgrades I've already made. Note: These parts have totally satisfied me, and have improved the air compression and accuracy of my rifle. I'm running a 7.4 lipo, but the ROF is WAY down, and when checking the parts after test firing, the wires were considerably warm.

Angel Custom "Aegis" High Performance Polycarbonate AEG Piston with Steel Teeth
(Model: AC-PT-AEG02)

Modify Baton Ryusoku Flat Hopup Bucking Spacer for Airsoft AEGs
(Model: BU-Baton-R)

Lonex 6.03mm Steel Tight Bore Precision Barrel for AEG (Length: 509mm)
(Model: BRL-LX-GB-03-10)

Matrix CNC High Performance Aluminum Air Seal Nozzle For M4 M16 PKM Airsoft AEG Series
(Model: Noz-Alum-M4)

AIM / Guarder Polycarbonate Ventilation Piston Head For Airsoft AEG Guns
(Model: PH-GE-04-03)

ASG Lonex AEG Gearbox CNC Aluminum Cylinder Head - Ver. 2 (M4 / M16 / SCAR / MP5)
(Model: CH-ASG-16603)

Angel Custom CNC Advanced Stainless Ribbed Airsoft AEG Cylinder - Full Length
(Model: AC-CYD-R05)

 

The other thing is, with the new Air Nozzle, it's got a REALLY tight fit, even with a bit of lubricant. So much that I'm worried it's going to put added stress on the tappet plate/gears. Is this common? I'm positive I have the right size and style, but it appears that the O-ring on the inside of the air nozzle is the culprit of the friction.

Can anyone give me advice or point me in the right direction? I've tried searching this forum and others, but I can't find the proper answers I'm looking for.

Thank you for viewing, and I'd really appreciate a comment, even if it's a 'Hey jerk, you should have checked here: <link>". I'm looking to make my rifle perfect, so any help is wonderful.

Thanks,
- Jake
"Napoliane"

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Is this your only AEG? If it is…do not use this as your learning modding AEG. Keep it as your primary and get something else as a modding platform.

 

“a terrible air nozzle without a o-ring,”

 

Don’t think a nozzle without an o-ring is a bad thing. Many/most high end AEG’s have –o-ring less nozzles. It is in fact the lower grade AEG’s have the nozzles with o-rings. This is to compensate for the sloppy cylinder air tubes that can vary from batch to batch.

 

“ and a piston that whiffed through through the cylinder without any resistance.”

 

Typical of no Standards manufacturing…it is the batch to batch inconsistency of low grade Airsoft parts.

 

“I cracked it open again after fielding it for the 3rd time, and the gears still seemed to take some wear and tear. (I'm currently running an M120 irregular spring, different from the M110 regular)”

Sounds like the gears are just made from soft alloys. Since your claiming this is an “EF” model. The quality of made materials is not high for EF products.

 

“I want to make sure my Tavor handles 450-500 fps, as I'm building my own field with a collection of friends, and (we like the battle scars) we prefer to play at higher fps's. My question is, what type of high-torque gears that are regular spurs and not helical, would you recommend? “

 

Depends on your budget. For 500fps that would require a M150 class springs. Nothing in the EF line is made to handle that tension level. I don’t think your shell can even handle that tension level, especially in cooler temps. You will need to drop hundred of $$ to get a EF Tavor to last more than 10,000 shots at 500fps. You have the budget for it?

 

“I'm looking into the High Torque/High Speed Lonex short-type motor, but all the gears I'm looking for that have 4-star+ ratings are helical, and I don't want to go cheap on the gears.”

 

Lonex is a very date motor, 10 years dated. There are far better motors for the same price and far better motors for $20.00 more. I am very much in favor of the Tienly GT30000. It can pull a M190 at 30,000RPM starting on a 2S LIPO while a Lonex can pull a M170 and tops out at 28000 RPM on a 3S lipo. See the difference? Gears…get any CnC’d gear and you are fine.

 

“I'm not interested in the HElical gears, as that means I've have to get a new piston and spend more time shimming, “

 

That is not true. Pistons are the same for helical gearsets.. Though perfect shimming is required, especially for high tension builds.

“and I've already shimmed the stock gears to the best of my ability. I just installed some new parts, and would hate to have to order different parts just to fit new gears. Below are the upgrades I've already made. Note: These parts have totally satisfied me, and have improved the air compression and accuracy of my rifle. I'm running a 7.4 lipo, but the ROF is WAY down, and when checking the parts after test firing, the wires were considerably warm. “

 

This is due in part to the heavier spring and low grade motor in your “EF” AEG.

 

Angel Custom "Aegis" High Performance Polycarbonate AEG Piston with Steel Teeth
(Model: AC-PT-AEG02)

 

 

Evike House rebrand of a China made piston…not high quality and has a large design flaw. On a M120 it will be fine…for a little while. The issue with these full rack pistons is that all the stress is on 3mm of material on 2 corners. Versus a half rack that has the entire diameter of the piston to carry the stress. Full rack pistons fails on this point most often

 

6703537051_b13da99f2e_b.jpg

 

Modify Baton Ryusoku Flat Hopup Bucking Spacer for Airsoft AEGs
(Model: BU-Baton-R)

 

Again, another dated concept…but it still works well.

 

Lonex 6.03mm Steel Tight Bore Precision Barrel for AEG (Length: 509mm)
(Model: BRL-LX-GB-03-10)

 

This is fine.

 

Matrix CNC High Performance Aluminum Air Seal Nozzle For M4 M16 PKM Airsoft AEG Series
(Model: Noz-Alum-M4)

 

Another house brand of Evike, low grade China components being sold as “upgrade” parts.

 

AIM / Guarder Polycarbonate Ventilation Piston Head For Airsoft AEG Guns
(Model: PH-GE-04-03)

 

Okay part.

 

ASG Lonex AEG Gearbox CNC Aluminum Cylinder Head - Ver. 2 (M4 / M16 / SCAR / MP5)
(Model: CH-ASG-16603)

 

Okay part

 

Angel Custom CNC Advanced Stainless Ribbed Airsoft AEG Cylinder - Full Length
(Model: AC-CYD-R05)

 

Meh…not really a custom part. You did get fleeced a bit if you paid more than 10.00 for it.

 

“The other thing is, with the new Air Nozzle, it's got a REALLY tight fit, even with a bit of lubricant. So much that I'm worried it's going to put added stress on the tappet plate/gears. Is this common? I'm positive I have the right size and style, but it appears that the O-ring on the inside of the air nozzle is the culprit of the friction. “

 

Tight Air Nozzle is NOT good. Again…o-ring nozzles is bad drop in part...pick ring out and just use it normally.

Edited by Guges Mk3
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Hey, Guges Mk3!

Thank you VERY much for your quick reply to my post. I really appreciate your input and your advice.

I chose the Matrix parts based off the reviews of the product. I'm learning now that Evike might not post every review, as I'm still going back and forth with their service about the reviews I made on other products, prior to this forum post.

I'll do what I can with the o-ring, and I'll check out the gears. One last noob question, what does CNC mean? I googled it, and ironically, I got a bunch of Matrix (Evike) CNC gears, but no definition.

Thank you again very much for your help.

- Jake

Edited by Napoliane

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Computer Numerically Controlled. Means that it was made or finished on a machine that can hold very high tolerances, so you get consistent quality of form and finish.

With air nozzles it could be a better idea to stick with a cylinder and air nozzle from the same manufacturer in the hope that they're actually toleranced to work together. If tolerances are tight then no O ring is superior in function and equivalent in air seal to an O ring. I got fed up trying to find bits that worked together and tend to just use SHS cylinder heads with the single O ring nozzle. Not perfect, but functional and reliable.

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Also, not many of the retailers exactly know what they are selling.

 

Like this for example.

SHS CNC High Torque Gear Set for Gearbox V2/3 AEG GENIII (16:1) (CL14009)

 

16:1 is High Speed

 

Most stock gears are 18:1

 

High Torque would be 20:1

Thing is you can run standard ratios on the New Type HS/HT motors.

 

As for Evike...you think they are going to allow bad reviews for the new player fleecing products? They don't want to be stuck with the items they import...course they will not allow you to give it negative reviews. Only negative reviews they will allow is for items that are not "house brands".

Edited by Guges Mk3
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Update: So, I took out those I-rings in the airnozzle and did that the trick!

A new problem now... The motor has locked up, and my wires/battery are hot to the touch. I put in everything exactly as I left it, but I don't know what I did wrong. I read that there could be a short in my wires, or there's something wrong with the motor.

This isn't good..

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More likely something is amiss in the gear train that has stalled the motor. It's going to be a case of taking it apart and reassembling. If you haven't touched the shimming then likely culprits are the spring guide not being properly seated at the back of the gearbox, the piston not properly engaged on its rails, or the anti reversal latch moved as you brought the shell halves together and has named under the bevel gear.

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And thanks for the advice on the motor. The Lonex is a 40k motor and 20rps on an M110 with a 24-25g piston is fine, a bit of overspin but not enough to double fire. I've got another 20rps build on an M100 with the same weight piston that runs with no issues. I wouldn't want to push it much further, but there's no need.

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Hey!

Another update...

Fixed the gears. I have tightened the motor too much and the pinion gear was too far forward and got caught.

However... yet another problem...

Now, the tappet plate/air nozzle won't move forward. It gets stuck in the backwards position. I'm thinking there's an issue with it getting caught between shims or something? I'm still taking it apart as I type this to figure out what else I messed up.

- Jake

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Semi-Final Update:

All is fixed and working well!

Remember how I said I shimmed properly? I lied. I royally messed up the shimming, but I have since had that fixed, and everything has been fixed.

I really like this Gearbox. It's so easy to close and work on. I don't know if it's the spring-change system, but it was easy upgrading and testing.

I'm participating in a local huge game event this Sunday. Over 100 people are suppose to show, so I'll be sure to follow up on how everything went in regards to how my rifle functioned and performed.

Thank you to Guges and Hangtight. I appreciate the prompt communication!

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