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Conradgr

Wondering if I can turn this build into a Dsg

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So I got a first gen G&G firehawk the is upgraded pretty well. Upgrades are:

-SHS high speed piston

-Re shimmed gearbox to make it run smoother

-G&G titan 35k motor long

-6.01 Angel Custom Barrel

-Reduced spring for faster rate of fire

-SHS trigger contacts

-steal high tourque gears

-11.1 lipo battery.

-Non ported cylinder.

Right now with the 11.1 lipo this gun has a Rps of about 25 and almost instant trigger response

I currently don't have mosfet or deans connectors.

I was wondering if I could swap for a heavier spring and throw in a duel sector gear and be set with double the rpm.

I usually only play semi auto so does that arc still happen that often in contacts and like if so why should I buy a $20-30 mosfet, risk messing up my gun or paying an extra $35 for a tech when trigger contacts only $4.

The reason I want DSG is because I thinking having a gun that shoots 40-50rps would be awesome, I dnt care if its unrealistic, it would just be so much fun to have. I have no experience soldering, but am definitely not afraid to do my research and learn, besides how bad could I screw up my internals.

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You need more than 25rps for what reason?

 

Going DSG will do nothing for you in SA. You are already at 25rps, albeit not very efficiently (I get the same performance in RPS with 1 less cell in my lipo and at a higher 400 FPS with .20g)

 

If your Firehawk is the pneumatic model with the jiggly door fake blow back...it will not be last with a spring higher than M120.

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You need more than 25rps for what reason?

 

Going DSG will do nothing for you in SA. You are already at 25rps, albeit not very efficiently (I get the same performance in RPS with 1 less cell in my lipo and at a higher 400 FPS with .20g)

 

If your Firehawk is the pneumatic model with the jiggly door fake blow back...it will not be last with a spring higher than M120.

There really isn't any stock internals I don't see how anyone of those parts I listed would break being high torq steel after market.

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Your assuming...don't assume...know the details, know all the details. Many steel parts are not of superior quality in Airsoft. Many are just sintered gears.

 

Many items sold as upgrade parts are just stock parts rebranded or repackaged. Your AC barrel definitely isn't an upgrade part.

 

Of he 100 brands on the market...most of the items are made by just a handful of companies.

 

American Consumerism does not apply to Airsoft. It's a you get what you pay for now warranty implied industry.

 

A SHS 32:1

 

SHS-32-1-Infinite-Torque-Up-Gear-Set-for

 

Supershooter - Ares

 

32:1 next to an Element HT gear set...

 

5913714057_349f6aa399_b.jpg

 

Which goes to show...upgrade parts are not always upgrades.

Just FYI...there are a couple of us here that actually have or are currently working in the airsoft industry. So...the information is legit.

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Your assuming...don't assume...know the details, know all the details. Many steel parts are not of superior quality in Airsoft. Many are just sintered gears.

 

Many items sold as upgrade parts are just stock parts rebranded or repackaged. Your AC barrel definitely isn't an upgrade part.

 

Of he 100 brands on the market...most of the items are made by just a handful of companies.

 

American Consumerism does not apply to Airsoft. It's a you get what you pay for now warranty implied industry.

 

A SHS 32:1

 

SHS-32-1-Infinite-Torque-Up-Gear-Set-for

 

Supershooter - Ares

 

32:1 next to an Element HT gear set...

 

5913714057_349f6aa399_b.jpg

 

Which goes to show...upgrade parts are not always upgrades.

Just FYI...there are a couple of us here that actually have or are currently working in the airsoft industry. So...the information is legit.

So how do I know which brands are actually decent I go to forums everybody says something different only real way of knowing which ones are decent is to compare and contrast which I do not have the money to do. Also do you think I can turn this build into a effective DSG for under a $100.

You sound like you know what you are talking about so any advice on next upgrade or brand etc... that doesn't completely destroy my wallet.

The reason AC barrel is there is because of it being a 6.01 im not going to pay like an extra $30 for a more durable barrel over one thats already decent one, it's not like im bashing the gun into walls or anything.

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the issue with cheap tightbore barrels is that they only meet 6.01mm in certain areas rather than the whole barrel length. it might be 6.01 at the tip where its easy to measure but throughout the length it will be all wavy inside. some sections will be wider and some will be tighter. at no point will it be tighter than your 6.01mm but the point of getting an upgraded barrel is for it to be perfectly consistent all the way through.

 

1311634638694.jpg

 

EDIT: rather than just explain I'll also recommend Prometheus if they're still around. they're more expensive but they're actually good quality.

Edited by Hellion_Blade

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There is a very simple trick to tell if the inner barrel has a good finish.

 

Hold the barrel up to a light and look through it.

 

The light will create a a refraction (not sure of the term) off the side of the walls giving an image of the surface. See a lot of lines or waves...bad barrel.

 

See nothing but a smooth gradient halo, like glass smooth...good barrel.

 

Angel Custom is a Evike House Brand (notice its not sold anywhere else in the world) He takes OEM parts, repackages...and ta-dah! Fleece the consumer brand is made. BTW...6.01 is not ideal any more...barrel is to tight. These are blow guns with bbs spinning backwards to take advantage of the Magnus effect. You should maintain a minimum gap of .08mm between bore and bb.

 

As for DSG...sure you can do it for 100.00 Get the Modify Kit and drop it in or the Modify DSG gear alone and just fabricate the other parts yourself.

Though...what is your need for a high ROF AEG when you shoot only SEMI. If you want to have a DSG box...I suggest you run two lowers...one for fun and one for play.

 

As for how to tell? That will be up to you. Read all of the persons post. Do they sound like they know what they are discuss and have proof...or are they just a parrot that repeats what they read?

 

On further research...I think your mechbox is not a pneumatic JD model so you should be okay with a shimmed/heavy spring for the DSG build.

Edited by Guges Mk3

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A DSG gearbox will in fact have quicker trigger response than an SSG gearbox, so it does actually make sense to run a DSG setup for a semi-only gun. The downside with a DSG setup is that you cut the effective cylinder volume in half so you'll need to use a relatively short barrel to get decent compression efficiency.

 

As for doing a DSG build for less than $100, it's definitely possible, but don't bother with a Modify DSG, an SHS DSG will be both stronger and cheaper. The best option is to get a genuine SC DSG sector, these are compatible with 18:1 and 16:1 ratio spur gears, so you could combine it with an SHS 16: or 18:1 gear set. If you go with a genuine DSG sector you'll blow most of the budget on gears alone though.

 

A cheaper alternative is to run SHS 12:1 ratio gears with a 22TPA neo amgnet motor of decent quality, feed it with a high output 11.1V li-po and you'll get pretty fast trigger response. the advantage of this route is that you're not limited to shorter barrel length and can use heavier ammo more effectively.

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A DSG gearbox will in fact have quicker trigger response than an SSG gearbox, so it does actually make sense to run a DSG setup for a semi-only gun. The downside with a DSG setup is that you cut the effective cylinder volume in half so you'll need to use a relatively short barrel to get decent compression efficiency.

 

As for doing a DSG build for less than $100, it's definitely possible, but don't bother with a Modify DSG, an SHS DSG will be both stronger and cheaper. The best option is to get a genuine SC DSG sector, these are compatible with 18:1 and 16:1 ratio spur gears, so you could combine it with an SHS 16: or 18:1 gear set. If you go with a genuine DSG sector you'll blow most of the budget on gears alone though.

 

A cheaper alternative is to run SHS 12:1 ratio gears with a 22TPA neo amgnet motor of decent quality, feed it with a high output 11.1V li-po and you'll get pretty fast trigger response. the advantage of this route is that you're not limited to shorter barrel length and can use heavier ammo more effectively.

is the g&g titan 35k motor not going to work for this build and as shorter barrel length the firehawks barrel is a 110mm if I get a moch suppressor maybe 180mm, the rps I want to achieve is around 40-50 with a max fps of 350. I want to go the cheapest effective route. Also I might have those ratio gears im not sure though do all gears have the ratio printed on them because if not I dnt want to rip apart gear box.

There is a very simple trick to tell if the inner barrel has a good finish.

 

Hold the barrel up to a light and look through it.

 

The light will create a a refraction (not sure of the term) off the side of the walls giving an image of the surface. See a lot of lines or waves...bad barrel.

 

See nothing but a smooth gradient halo, like glass smooth...good barrel.

 

Angel Custom is a Evike House Brand (notice its not sold anywhere else in the world) He takes OEM parts, repackages...and ta-dah! Fleece the consumer brand is made. BTW...6.01 is not ideal any more...barrel is to tight. These are blow guns with bbs spinning backwards to take advantage of the Magnus effect. You should maintain a minimum gap of .08mm between bore and bb.

 

As for DSG...sure you can do it for 100.00 Get the Modify Kit and drop it in or the Modify DSG gear alone and just fabricate the other parts yourself.

Though...what is your need for a high ROF AEG when you shoot only SEMI. If you want to have a DSG box...I suggest you run two lowers...one for fun and one for play.

 

As for how to tell? That will be up to you. Read all of the persons post. Do they sound like they know what they are discuss and have proof...or are they just a parrot that repeats what they read?

 

On further research...I think your mechbox is not a pneumatic JD model so you should be okay with a shimmed/heavy spring for the DSG build.

Im not a tech so idk if I can fabricate any parts, but ill try if I need to, the reason I want rate of fire is yes because there are times when me and my friends go to courses and play full auto and when your running around with a $400+ set up who cares about $20 of ammo a month. Also it does yield better trigger response on semi and the rps is just plain awesome and fun, not practical but fun. I dnt care to much about accuracy of the barrel because with the rps I want to achieve hitting a target wont be an issue

 

Edited by airborne101

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The G&G motor will indeed work, but G&G motors have not faired well in my builds, yours might be good though. If it burns out it won't be expensive to replace anyway. A 110mm barrel will work very well with a DSG setup, you may get a bit higher power with an 180mm barrel, but it's not a must.

Edited by Lefse

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The G&G motor will indeed work, but G&G motors have not faired well in my builds, yours might be good though. If it burns out it won't be expensive to replace anyway. A 110mm barrel will work very well with a DSG setup, you may get a bit higher power with an 180mm barrel, but it's not a must.

not to much power trying to stay under 350fps also do all gears have the ratios printed on them bcuz I dnt know ratio of my gears because I bought the gun used and I dnt want to tear the gear box apart if the gears dnt have ratios on them, but im pretty sure the gears are stock so do u know what ratio stock gears tend to be?

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110mm?

 

You are not going to easily get an AEG up to 350 fps with that short of a barrel.

 

LEFSE...any of your MP5K's running that high with a 110mm barrel?

 

You will have to go M170...which is going to be heck of a lot of fun for you to install and get working right...

Edited by Guges Mk3

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I did somehow get 390fps out of my TM MP5K with what I think was an M120 spring, it may have been a fluke though, barrels below 150mm seem to top out around 320 fps or so. I'm currently doing a new build in my CYMA MP5K with a 110mm tighbore barrel, it'll run an SP120 spring and a ported cylinder. I'm gonna run a slightly heavier piston than in previous builds and see how that affects the power output. getting 350fps with .20's may be difficult, but it might be possible to get more than 1 joule with heavier BB's.

 

Installing an M170 isn't so bad if you have normal arm strength and the right technique. And getting it to work is no problem if you have the right parts and know how. It may do painful things to the gearbox shell though, I've only used springs this hot in V3 shells. With radiusing and possibly some extra reinforcement the shell will probably hold up though.

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I did somehow get 390fps out of my TM MP5K with what I think was an M120 spring, it may have been a fluke though, barrels below 150mm seem to top out around 320 fps or so. I'm currently doing a new build in my CYMA MP5K with a 110mm tighbore barrel, it'll run an SP120 spring and a ported cylinder. I'm gonna run a slightly heavier piston than in previous builds and see how that affects the power output. getting 350fps with .20's may be difficult, but it might be possible to get more than 1 joule with heavier BB's.

 

Installing an M170 isn't so bad if you have normal arm strength and the right technique. And getting it to work is no problem if you have the right parts and know how. It may do painful things to the gearbox shell though, I've only used springs this hot in V3 shells. With radiusing and possibly some extra reinforcement the shell will probably hold up though.

decided to go with ssg 13:1 some guy is offering to give me a stock dboys scar l for stock tm mp5k, im going to replace almost everything in scar builds probably gonna be something like this:

Shs 13:1

Shs 15t metal tooth piston, swiss cheesed

25-50c 11.1 lipo with deans connectors

Shs cylinder

Shs cylinder head

Shs air nozzle

Shs high speed or balanced motor, might use the g&g 35k titan

M100 or M110 spring

Some $30 mosfet

It needs new bushings but idk if I shouod use bushings or bearings.

Shs shims along with shim job

Hoping to achieve around 40rps with this build.

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That would be a nice build with a 16TPA motor and 7.4v lipo, but it'll just destroy itself with 11.1v,and especially with the 35k motor.

40+ rps and 320fps is easy with a simple DSG, and reliable.

SHS HT motor, stock G&P gears (20.2:1, tough), SHS full rack piston, already lightened enough of you leave the bearing out, SHS 8 tooth DSG, M150 spring, Cheap Firestorm basic Mosfet and a 2550mah 30/60C 11.1v lipo. Add a couple of flash mags to keep up with the ROF, or a 900 round mega mag and you're golden. You've got enough cylinder volume for a 230mm barrel and 0.25g BBs.

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Okay HT...now I know people are dumping junk in the UK.

 

Flash mags are bad. It was a solution for a short sighted design flaw (new people getting into the sport and forgetting what things used to be like). Hicaps made in the "day" could feed the entire reservoir even at high RPS up to ~450 bbs. Then the low grade fleece the newb units started popping out and they put in shorter springs. Which meant you could only get out 200 bbs before you needed to wind again. Then someone had the bright idea of introducing a string (that jams) to wind the mag. I say, don't reward bad designs. Just buy good hicaps. TM, Easy Co. G&P, Azimuth and a few others have full delivery springs in their hicaps. Buy those instead. Load, wind once (it does take about 1.5 minutes to fully wind the mag) and go. Don't mess with hidden doors and strings.

While he does have the cylinder volume for a 230mm barrel. I think a 110mm is going to be to short and the pressure wave is not going to fully accelerate the bb to top speed before it leaves the barrel.

Edited by Guges Mk3

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Junk flash mags are terrible, but I'm happy with the Lonex ones.

I've got a couple of full delivery hi caps, but it's good to know which ones actually have the full spring in. Even better are the ones with a full spring and the Allen socket winder in the side.

With the stroke available off an 8 tooth DSG, 230mm gives about the right cylinder/barrel ratio. Once you get under about 200mm you need to start thinking about heavier springs to accelerate the BB. My CQB gun has a 170mm barrel and needs a M110 spring to make 340fps when M100 in a 230mm barrel does 335fps.

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That would be a nice build with a 16TPA motor and 7.4v lipo, but it'll just destroy itself with 11.1v,and especially with the 35k motor.

40+ rps and 320fps is easy with a simple DSG, and reliable.

SHS HT motor, stock G&P gears (20.2:1, tough), SHS full rack piston, already lightened enough of you leave the bearing out, SHS 8 tooth DSG, M150 spring, Cheap Firestorm basic Mosfet and a 2550mah 30/60C 11.1v lipo. Add a couple of flash mags to keep up with the ROF, or a 900 round mega mag and you're golden. You've got enough cylinder volume for a 230mm barrel and 0.25g BBs.

well ive been using the 11.1 on my g&g motor for a while now and its not showing anysignd of burning out. and if I did get the shs dsg would the g&g motor do the job because I dnt want to droo $50 for new motor.

That would be a nice build with a 16TPA motor and 7.4v lipo, but it'll just destroy itself with 11.1v,and especially with the 35k motor.

40+ rps and 320fps is easy with a simple DSG, and reliable.

SHS HT motor, stock G&P gears (20.2:1, tough), SHS full rack piston, already lightened enough of you leave the bearing out, SHS 8 tooth DSG, M150 spring, Cheap Firestorm basic Mosfet and a 2550mah 30/60C 11.1v lipo. Add a couple of flash mags to keep up with the ROF, or a 900 round mega mag and you're golden. You've got enough cylinder volume for a 230mm barrel and 0.25g BBs.

well ive been using the 11.1 on my g&g motor for a while now and its not showing anysignd of burning out. and if I did get the shs dsg would the g&g motor do the job because I dnt want to droo $50 for new motor.

 

Edited by airborne101

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You said you wanted to do a DSG for under $100

 

ZCI 16TPA motor $30, SHS DSG sector $15, M150 spring $15, SHS lightened full rack piston $12, basic Mosfet $15. You use your stock 18:1 gears, port the existing cylinder and find a stock 230mm barrel from somewhere.

You could use the titan motor, but it might struggle a bit, but if the battery and wiring can supply the current then it'll push the set up above at getting on for 50rps.

And don't expect to get it right straight away. When you start stressing components like this, things break. If you've never done a DSG before then start small and work up, and don't use your only gun!

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I hope your not trying to learn all this on your primary AEG.

thats why I was thinking about trading mp5k for scar and not messing with m4, but this isnt rocket science ive done my research watched a few hrs worth of tutorials and in all honesty it really doesnt look as hard as most of the ppl on forums make it out to be.

Is not the motor burning out that's going to be the problem. Pre engagement is going to be an issue though.

ill short stroke then.

Why port the cylinder, you're already at less than half effective cylinder volume with a DSG.

? My cylinder is unported

 

Edited by airborne101

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35k motor on 11.1v, 13:1 gears is heading for 40rps, so M130 spring, light piston and 4-5 tooth short stroke if you're trying to get 350fps (probably 4 with the really short barrel, but you'll get better efficiency and accuracy with 180-200mm), but you'll still be pushing your luck a bit.

A DSG that does slightly higher rps and 340fps would be less highly stressed and probably more reliable...

Just because it doesn't look hard, doesn't mean that it's easy. I'm an engineer by training and I've got a collection of broken parts that'll back me up on this one! Having a gun that does 40-50rps isn't much used if it only lasts ten minutes every time you take it to a skirmish, even if you have a back up.

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35k motor on 11.1v, 13:1 gears is heading for 40rps, so M130 spring, light piston and 4-5 tooth short stroke if you're trying to get 350fps (probably 4 with the really short barrel, but you'll get better efficiency and accuracy with 180-200mm), but you'll still be pushing your luck a bit.

A DSG that does slightly higher rps and 340fps would be less highly stressed and probably more reliable...

Just because it doesn't look hard, doesn't mean that it's easy. I'm an engineer by training and I've got a collection of broken parts that'll back me up on this one! Having a gun that does 40-50rps isn't much used if it only lasts ten minutes every time you take it to a skirmish, even if you have a back up.

m130 is a little high I recommend looking at that utube link I sent the guy was using a very similar build but a m110 or 100 I dnt remember with a 2t short stroke. I dnt see the point in a higher fps spring when your going to take 4-5 gears off you would just be better off getting a dsg. Besides a heavier spring will put more stress on the gears/motor that guys build worked fine with a m110 spring or 100 at 50rps with 2t shortstroke, 4-5t short stroke is way to much. If he can do it I dnt see why ppl are making a ssg40+ so difficult when the guy has all the parts you need listed in the description, I dnt see how u could go wrong. Since I already bought the 13:1 gears im leaning toward the ssg build but I might be able to still return them, and get a dsg but idk if a dsg is really worth it like are you going to really find 60rps more fun than 40rps I mean there comes a point where it looks like a lazer either way.

The piston will have to be 90% air with an M110 spring at 40rps, unless you mean an SP110, and even then you're pushing your luck.

look at the youtube link attached to the comment u replied to he has a ssg 50rps with a m110 spring. He also has all the parts listed in description so I dnt see why 40 would be that hard to get when this guy is reaching 50rps with a very similar setup. Yes he does have a high speed motor though but still is 40 really going to be a stretch with my motor? I mean my guns shooting around 25-27 rps and once I install mosfet and deans I hear combined its like a +3rps so lets say im currently at 29rps with what im prtty sure stock g&g gears are 18:1 and lets pretend the 13:1 are 12:1 for the sake of simplicity. The 12:1 shoot 1.33x faster than the 18:1 so once I have them installed it should look like this equation: 29 x 1.33= Roughly 38.5rps and this is with a piston thats not short stroked or swiss cheesed. So im almost certain 40rps wont be an issue and if I end up buying a high speed motor it will be easy.

 

Edited by airborne101

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He's using a Guarder SP110 spring, which is equivalent to an M130, perhaps a bit higher.

13:1 gears are actually 13.66:1. I'd imagine the G&P piston he's using is mostly air (he states it's Swissed in the description) and I'd also reckon on it not lasting that long.

His gun is probably pushing 400fps but you said you wanted 350,hence the more severe short stroke.

That description only hints at the amount of work and experience that went into making that gun hold together.

But you carry on, because how hard can it be? Given that 50rps SSG builds are pretty thin on the ground, I'm still going with 'harder than you think'.

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He's using a Guarder SP110 spring, which is equivalent to an M130, perhaps a bit higher.

13:1 gears are actually 13.66:1. I'd imagine the G&P piston he's using is mostly air (he states it's Swissed in the description) and I'd also reckon on it not lasting that long.

His gun is probably pushing 400fps but you said you wanted 350,hence the more severe short stroke.

That description only hints at the amount of work and experience that went into making that gun hold together.

But you carry on, because how hard can it be? Given that 50rps SSG builds are pretty thin on the ground, I'm still going with 'harder than you think'.

yea your probably right I didnt know guarder had different spring ratings so, it probably would be cheaper to do a dsg build. So now the question is should I buy the cheaper shs dsg or the more expensive siegetek, should I get 16 or 18:1 and since im going dsg lets shoot for a higher rps lets say 55. Sure dsg are harder to build but ill figure it out, if I mess up ill just rip apart the gun again entel I get everything right. I already have 13:1 on the way I might be able to return them but could I do a 13:1 dsg build. I will be doing this on my second gun so you know part of the fun comes out of the puzzle trying to build the thing correctly.

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You could do a 13:1 DSG build but only if you use a 22TPA motor which will get you around 55rps on 11.1v.

If you want to use your existing motor, then stock 18.72:1 gearing will also get around 55rps on 11.1v, but for the sake of anyone on the receiving end and your internals you'll probably want to keep that to under 1J (328fps). Slightly more sensible is stock G&P gears (tough 9 teeth primary spur on the bevel) which give 20.2:1 gearing, which with a 35k motor and 11.1v should manage a solid 50rps. Probably still keep it to 1J, but with a careful build that has a chance of holding together OK using inexpensive parts. But you'll need to make the most of the cylinder volume that it'll have, so a 200mm barrel will be a lot better than the 110mm, otherwise you'll need the sort of spring that's more likely to break a V2 gearbox to get any fps.

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He's using a Guarder SP110 spring, which is equivalent to an M130, perhaps a bit higher.

13:1 gears are actually 13.66:1. I'd imagine the G&P piston he's using is mostly air (he states it's Swissed in the description) and I'd also reckon on it not lasting that long.

His gun is probably pushing 400fps but you said you wanted 350,hence the more severe short stroke.

That description only hints at the amount of work and experience that went into making that gun hold together.

But you carry on, because how hard can it be? Given that 50rps SSG builds are pretty thin on the ground, I'm still going with 'harder than you think'.

Not wanna be a smartass, but they're closer to an M120 than an M130 actually.

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....and you thought it was simple...

well I said ssg were relatively straightforward.

You could do a 13:1 DSG build but only if you use a 22TPA motor which will get you around 55rps on 11.1v.

If you want to use your existing motor, then stock 18.72:1 gearing will also get around 55rps on 11.1v, but for the sake of anyone on the receiving end and your internals you'll probably want to keep that to under 1J (328fps). Slightly more sensible is stock G&P gears (tough 9 teeth primary spur on the bevel) which give 20.2:1 gearing, which with a 35k motor and 11.1v should manage a solid 50rps. Probably still keep it to 1J, but with a careful build that has a chance of holding together OK using inexpensive parts. But you'll need to make the most of the cylinder volume that it'll have, so a 200mm barrel will be a lot better than the 110mm, otherwise you'll need the sort of spring that's more likely to break a V2 gearbox to get any fps.

since im now going to be doing this build on the scar the barrel is going to be around 200-300mm and im aiming for 350fps at max because thats limit of course

 

Edited by airborne101

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well I said ssg were relatively straightforward.

Mechanically that's not much difference between SSG and DSG, but once the sector gear starts spinning much faster than 30 revolutions per second then the margins between the time it takes for the piston to complete its stroke, the gearbox to cycle, between a component being strong /light enough becomes almost non existent in some cases and it becomes a juggling act between speed, spring, stroke, weight and strength.

A 40rps DSG isn't really much more stressed than a 25rps SSG in some respects, but a 45 rps SSG is walking a fine line between success and failure. If you want to get close to that line then you have to kind if sneak up on it, know when you've crossed it and then go back a step.

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since im now going to be doing this build on the scar the barrel is going to be around 200-300mm and im aiming for 350fps at max because thats limit of course

Go for 200mm as that will work well with the swept cylinder volume you'll achieve with a DSG. Anything longer and you're just not going to be able to move enough air.

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Mechanically that's not much difference between SSG and DSG, but once the sector gear starts spinning much faster than 30 revolutions per second then the margins between the time it takes for the piston to complete its stroke, the gearbox to cycle, between a component being strong /light enough becomes almost non existent in some cases and it becomes a juggling act between speed, spring, stroke, weight and strength.

A 40rps DSG isn't really much more stressed than a 25rps SSG in some respects, but a 45 rps SSG is walking a fine line between success and failure. If you want to get close to that line then you have to kind if sneak up on it, know when you've crossed it and then go back a step.

and what do you rexkon is that line is in terms of rps for dsg because I don't want to be riding it I want a reliable gun even if it cost me a few rps.

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