Airsoft starter - buying my first AEG - need some final advice

[xReapzNL 0]

Hello everybody, Ive been to a couple skirms using rental kits so far, however it is time for me to buy my first AEG

I Consider myself as the biggest airsoft n00b alive, and all the upcoming advice and suggestions are welcome. thanks in advance.

 

my budget is considered to be MAX €400 euro, however preferable less for more ofcourse.

I have played both indoor(CQB) and outdoor(fields), and untill now ive liked both alot. so I guess the barrel length shouldnt be too short/long.

 

as a beginner airsofter I made the choice to play as a normal soldier/assaulter, without any in depth specifications. Learn the basics, then specialize.

 

Ive already done some research evenings and figured out the what type/kind of airsoft model I prefer.

I love the M4 models with a full attachment rails over the top. and a longer looking outer barrel/handguard.

 

I will propably add the following attachments ( Mildot or Eotech optics, Angled foregrip, flashlight(or peqbox), (optional, 3x flip to side magnification) suppressor/tracer unit.

 

I have narrowed my pick down to a few remaining models ( ofcourse, all other suggestions/advices are still much appreciated)

 

-G&G GC16 Warthog 9" ( or 12") €360,23 (€370,97 for 12") $ 425,61

-G&G GC16 SRL €300,60 (€360, but has special offer) $ 355,16

- VFC VR16 saber carbine mod 1 €389,50 $ 460,20

- VFC Avalon Saber €486,26 $574,52

 

for reference ( not interested in model) , krytac LVOA-S €510 $ 602,57 , yes I guess Europe is more expensive... )

 

 

I do not mind to buy the best replica out of the box, I do not mind teching on it either, and ive already planned on doing some mods/checks just to be sure about the durability of the AEG. ( shimming, after market hop-up, bucking/nub, applying a flat-hop, changing wiring to more durable/less resistance ones, connecting DEANS. (everything if needed ofcourse, if the stock is fine by itself I wont change it)

 

also I want to instantly use Lipo batteries, which shouldnt be a problem because all of them are delivered with mosfet or ETU. I was thinking about 11.1v, above 1000mah with 25C or + . ( suggestions, brands to avoid/or specially use?, also I could use some smart charger guidance)

 

 

Here are my current questions between de different models I have mentioned above.

 

- as previously said, I don't mind teching on my AEG, however I am noob/beginner so I would avoid the advanced stuff to start with,

 

basicly the questions are all based around the fact, shall I buy a pre upgraded AEG ( the Avalon saber,) or upgrade the lower G&G warthog/SRL or the previous model vr16 saber?

Time it takes for me to install/apply the after market upgrades(teching) is no issue, I would like to do it anyway. HOWEVER money is an issue. The 400 euro is the LIMIT for an AEG (excl. batteries/bbs/few extra mags/charger)

 

example : if I buy the €360 euro GC16 warthog 9" , then I will have €140 euro left for upgrading the AEG, inner barrel, motor, everything in the gearbox, to the same or better specifications as the out of the box VFC avalon Saber. is this even possible for the price difference?

 

- is the VFC avalon saber perfect, or what is a MUST to upgrade after market? ( consider there is no budget for it )

 

- is the VFC avalon saber and VR16 saber carbine mod 1 considered too long for indoor (CQB) play area's ?

 

- What is the stock inner barrel diameter of the G&G brands? ( 6.08mm, or are stocks 6.04 , read this somewhere) and if so, is installing a 6,03mm tightbore a top priority over bucking/nub/motor ?

 

- What are the motor types used in both the G&G GC16?

 

- is the almost 100 euro difference between the VFC avalon saber and the VR16 saber carbine mod 1 worth it? ( the Avalon saber is the same newer released edition from the VR16 series, upgraded gearbox, 6.03mm tightbore inner barrel, better performance motor ( not sure which one particular, anyone? ) (almost same question as the example above, I know)

 

- is the quick change spring system in the VFC gearbox worth it? does it make much of a difference?

 

- what are the differences between the G&G GC16 warthog 9" and the SRL edition? ( because there is a difference in price)

 

except for some external changes , SRL has some lines in the top receiver and has keymod rail on the 45 degrees angle of the handguard/outer barrel

 

- is the ETU system in the G&G brand any good or should it be avoided/removed/changed? ive read multiple reviews about this, and its very mixed. ive read this system does two things ( the fire mode option to burst, works as a MOSFET, doenst burn trigger contact. However few websites selling the G&G brand recommened to only use 11.1v C15 batteries, because more C will fry the system, and Nimh wouldnt work with the ETU?

 

- are there ANY other really considerable differences between G&G and VFC , except the ones mentioned earlier?

 

at last her are the delivered links to the specific AEG's I have previously talked about.

https://www.qtac.nl/airsoft-replicas/rifles/aeg-rifles/12112-vr16-saber-carbine-mod1

https://gunfire.pl/product-eng-1152207755-GC16-SRL-Assault-Rifle-Replica.html

https://gunfire.pl/product-eng-1152211848-Avalon-Saber-Carbine-Replica.html

https://gunfire.pl/product-eng-1152208359-GC16-Warthog-9-Assault-Rifle-Replica.html

 

Thank you for your time and effort to help me in my ultimate search to my dream AEG.

Hopefully I have been able to deliver the forever dream of a decent and usefull " Helpme which gun to get for $$$ topic.

 

I am sorry for any wrong grammatical sentences, english is not my main(1st) language

Greetings,

Kevin [Reapz]

 

[Guges Mk3 225]

Well since you admit you are a Newb.

 

Please take this information from an individual (me) who has been in the Airsoft industry for 3 decades.

 

Get what appeals to you in looks and budget, but, and I say this seriously. DO NOT Upgrade you AEG until you have played OVER 1 year with it (the caps is an emphasis point).

 

Pre-upgrades are MARKETING gimmick. If you look at the terms: Pre means BEFORE. Upgrade mean an improvement over another condition. You put the two together and you get BEFORE an improvement. Which means the AEG is Stock. I really hate this marketing terms. It fools so many new players into wasting money.

 

Now as to the AEG...it is a tool. How well that tool works is based on you the player. Your skills and tactics will determine how effective you are with it. Do not think the tool will make you a better player, this is why I say do not upgrade it for a year. People who learn play on inferior equipment has to compensate with skill. I shoot a lot of "kids" with upgraded AEG's in the side because they never learned to watch their flanks.

In addition, there is many "upgrade" parts sold on the open market, but they are nothing other than stock parts. Again, they take advantage of eager inexperienced players wanting an upgrade.

 

Being in the Netherlands, if you got a new bike, would you switch the handle bars, seat and brakes without riding it for say a month? The same applies to Airsoft...use it and then tune it to your play style.

 

As for it being long? It depends on you. I knew a 5'6" Filipino that fought Room to Room with a TM SG1...he destroyed people with it based on his skill of cutting a room and sweeping to shoot at people without getting hit himself.. I also knew a 6'2" tall player that used a MP5K in the wood and he too destroyed people, his skill were flanking maneuvers.

 

So...with that get what appeals to you. The VFC is the best suited for you in my honest opinion.

 

Remember everyone shoots the 6mm ball. What your AEG looks like has no bearing on it's capability. One model may have more "parts" and that increases price over a basic model.

Edited October 1, 2017 by Guges Mk3

[xReapzNL 0]

First and most important, thanks for your time and effort, I really appreciate it.

 

I do understand the fact that " fully upgraded" AEG's don't make or break the players, this is propably the biggest reason alot of 12 year olds play airsoft for about 2 months and then quit. after raging about the "badly upgraded" gear they are priviliged to play with.

 

However I do recognize myself as a pretty quick learner and don't consider myself the biggest noob when it comes to tactics.( im a noob in AEG's, upgraded, teching, mods, etc) describing my playstyle as far as it has developed so far. I would say I prefer to get close and personal equal to being a quick flanker. ( however in some cases I felt forced to play like this because of the consistent accuracy /range the rental AEG's offer. however did not get the chance to use someone's AEG or even sniper to taste the feeling of longer range engagements)

 

The last thing I would like to happen is to feel restricted in continueing my learning curve to become a better overall player, by the simple reason of buying an AEG's with not enough potentional stock performance, as well as not being able to upgrade it.

 

my reply about your example of buying a new bike. Yes I would definitely switch out the handle bars, seat and brakes, gears, chain, without riding it first for a month, when they do not fulfill the performance requirements I want them to be. which leads to 2 different questions, did you buy the wrong bike for the wrong purpose? (buying a CQB weapon, but wants to play as a sniper). Or did you buy a bike that doesnt fit your minimum requirements overall?

 

riding a bicycle trough the street from A to B, is what I would consider play a game of casual airsoft, however I don't just want to go from A to B. I want to go from A to B in the most fun way possible, take the hard sandy road trough the woods, mountain,etc. I have to buy a Mountain bike, not just "a bike", because those wont fulfill my minimum requirements.

 

my example would be the motorcycle I bought 3 years ago, it was a nice and stock running bike, however did not fulfill my needs, so I (we) pulled it apart. It was capable of delivering the results I wanted, but not for the consisted amount of time and abuse I was willing to throw at the machine. I changed the brake paddels, added a rear wheel hand brake, changed the gear ratio, got a stronger chain, got different tires, bigger brake discs, stripped it naked, added a bunch of protection bars and sliders, because pulling wheelies, purposely drifting, and more to become a better driver, heavy increasing my skill in general, with the learning curve I planned on taking, was going to be to much for the stock bike, it would survive the first few times, however I would propably get the restricted feeling, instantly when I screw up once or twice ( crashing).

 

Back on the topic, bottom line in all this. What you are suggesting is, to avoid teching and upgraded an AEG for about a year as a new player. which would leave me with the the simple decision to make. "am I going to be satisfied with a "less" performing AEG or am I going to spend more money and buy a "pre-upgraded" more accurate,more consistant AEG.

 

You mentioned a short sentence about any of the VFC AEG's suiting me best, could you support this a bit? why would VFC suit me better, more options, better stock performance, etcetc.

 

since the posting of my topic, I have been gathering as much information around the forums as I could. I was slightly leaning more towards the G&G GC16 SRL , for the reasons : its decent out of the box, if the inner barrel is 6,08mm, its not a hard after market installation to apply, its recommended to run on the 11,1V lipo, I was considered of using anyway.

 

HOWEVER there is one really BIG negative about this brand/type of AEG, as far as I understand at forums. the ETU system, together with the delivered MOSFET(/motor for the CM16 editions).

 

every single post about the G&G CM16 and GC16 editions with the ETU system is considered, bad, alot of malfunctions, issues frustration and a smart move to avoid as a beginner.

which gives me the following questions :

- is it easily replaced with a standard trigger and standard mosfet?

- does it really fail that much?( or does it look like that because human nature, we like to whine about stuff thats not working for moment, we don't usually praise stuff that is decent working.)

- how to fix the issue permanent when it happens, what to change/remove/add to make it work ( without ditching the ETU all together)?

 

Thanks for all your time and effort again, for now the performance/price of the G&G draws more of my attention then the higher price/perfomance of the high end VFC AEG, However I still take this big negative issue about the ETU in consideration, and would preferably avoid that path because as a newb its fairly unknown to me. So I am still back again at the 50/50 %.

 

ps. any other suggestions than the G&G and VFC I mentioned above are still welcome aswell ofcourse.

 

[Guges Mk3 225]

You have it right there. The ETU system is less than 100 reliable.

 

No, the replacement units are the same as the units they put into an AEG. You may get another poor quality unit.

 

The 6.08mm barrel is general purpose and not a special feature. There is nothing considered a "standard" mosfet. MOSFET are new to the trigger system in the last 2-3 years. The mechbox shell is not originally cast to accommodate the electronics...thus you can only replace like for like, unless you can figure out what to cut in the mechbox, you are stuck with factory parts.

 

Now if you get the VFC you can drop in a Gate Titan which was designed to fit in the legacy trigger area.

 

 

Sadly you are getting into the sport late where manufacturer's are deviating from the TM standard. More items are becoming proprietary and thus upgrading is harder to do. Back 5 years ago...items were fairly standardized...today...not so easy to change.

 

I would suggest you favor a 2S Lipo instead of a 3S.

 

Since you are asking about the M4 platform, there are other options, but price in the EU gets pretty high.

 

I would look into a G&P and a Krytac.

[xReapzNL 0]

I was currently considering to dive head first into the deep frightening ocean and buy the following, however I am still not 100% certain if everything will work and fit as intended.

 

Itemlist:

- G&G GC16 SRL

- prometheus 6.03 EG Tight Bore Inner Barrel for AEG Length : 247mm

- Prometheus NEO hop-up chamber

- prometheus blue flat bucking ( optional, the G&G green bucking is good, however might not give a good seal on the barrel. )

- sets of ultra plugs

- 16 gauge wiring

- Gate Nano asr mosfet, used with dual signal wire config

- Lonex V2 trigger contacts

- Lonex V2 steel thrust bearing

- 7.4V 1300 mah C25 Lipo battery

 

fine tune it to shoot consistently below 360 FPS <AT>0.2g bb.

 

externals:

magpull angled foregrip

BD KAC QDC/CQB Quick Detach Suppressor

Holosight ( propably clone at first)

flashlight

microlaser

 

reply to your answer:

 

as for the Gate Titan, I don't really require so much hassle , options and preset firing modes for the AEG, where I live you can play full auto <AT>360fps , some places 400 fps. semi auto (dmr) with 2sec delay <AT>450fps and bolt actions <AT> 500fps.

 

as far as mosfets go, I guess the Gate nano asr mentioned earlier , will do the trick.

I agree on the 2S lipo instead of the 3S. the 11.1V Lipo, would propably wear my AEG down much quicker with the stock piston/gears/etc.

 

I am well aware of the multiple good brands with M4 platforms, however G&P high-ends are more expensive here then krytac,however I didnt really go in depth about the low/mid end aeg's of G&P with the option to upgrade them the same like I mentioned above. Krytac is €510 euro / $600+ usd. Also I dislike the fact that if something breaks/wears down ( low chance but what if you get the lemon...) you can only replace the items with krytac stock stuff. like you said earlier.Also for some reason im not the biggest fan of the krytac design.

[Guges Mk3 225]

Honestly, you are doing to much all at once. Since this is your only AEG. Do not make this the learning platform and the playing platform.

 

You don't need the laser.

You most likely will not need a flashlight either.

 

The fake suppressor, grip and Holosight,..sure...

 

The Lonex parts will do nothing for you. Skip them.

 

Neo-Hop...nothing needed there either

 

You don't need the ASR either...

Nor do you need to change the wires

 

You can get better performance with Maple Leaf packings and nubs.

 

Nor do you really need to replace the barrel either a good clean and polish will give you good results.

[xReapzNL 0]

The externals are considered looks, they way I would like it, however the supressor might act as a small extender when needed with the inner barrel.

 

The lonex trigger contacts are the replacement for the stock installed ETU ( which will give issues 9/10 times), when imgoing to remove the ETU anyway, why would I unsolder/disconnect all the existing wires? when with some inexpensive (and considered better working) connectors and new wires, I am able to make an entire new circuit, the mostfet with the dual signal wires is a long term installation indeed, but I do keep in mind that the 2 closest places to play are indoor/cqb, and as for now I do like to get close to, which would propably lead to upgrading my AEG for a higher RoF. (11.1V lipo's 13:1 gears, etc, but thats considered future).

 

as for the full prometheus hopup,barrel,bucking, you are right, those upgrades are maybe a bit overkill to start with,

might only change the barrel ( if it has a good seal) to a madbull 6.03mm tightbore , keep the stock hopup chamber,stock bucking(or maple leaf), a maple leaf/firefly nub and flat hop it.

[Lefse 14]

No point replacing the stock hop-up chamber, it's at least as good as the Prometheus chamber, little point replacing the barrel too, high end G&G's have very good stock barrels. the stock green G&G bucking is also very good, if you're gonna stick with standard hop you might as well keep it.

[Guges Mk3 225]

Before modding it completely. Play a few games with it. Then tune it to you play style.