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mrtrump

CYMA dragunov upgrade problems

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19 minutes ago, Guges Mk3 said:

it's still intruding into the barrel enough to put a spin on your bb.

There's essentially no spin on my bb when fully dialed out. Range is horrible. Completely useless as any sort of DMR. I can honestly say I get better performance out of my stock packing and nub than the ML one. I've never heard of these sorts of problems with ML packing and nubs, but I'm not exactly steeped in the community of ML users. I never could've imagined that this would be so difficulty. I'm tempted to install the ML packing and nub I currently have in someone else's AEG (with their permission, of course) with the intention to observe the performance of their AEG with my ML packing and nub. I do not know what is unique about my AEG. But this whole topic has raised another question in my mind; I hear some people promote the virtues of using an eraser nub. This seems like a good idea in theory, but in practice, it seems like this would not work. An eraser seems like it would intrude even more into the barrel, creating an obstruction even more insurmountable than an ML packing and nub assembly such as mine. Unless the intention is to never dial in the eraser nub, but rather to leave it almost completely disengaged, and the advantage would just be the enormous contact patch. But, I assume that if some people promote the virtues of the eraser nub, and some promote the virtues of the ML packing and nub assembly, both hop up systems must work for those people. I would be very interested to know what is different about the internals, specifically the inner barrel, hop up assembly, etc, of their AEG from mine. My main question is: what do you think I should do about this? Thanks.

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Eraser nubs are for people that have to carve their own nub before the ML types were made.  Do not do this...sorry to say...it adds complexity that will make things even more difficult for you.

Thing is...the hop-up unit you have is not standard.  Couple that with your experience level and someone trying to help you via a forum...it makes it rather difficult to make it work right.  I need a picture of the contact point of the CYMA hop-up.  Specifically the point where the nub attaches to the arm.  I have a slight suspicion about another issue.

Now with your additional comment...with it off..it's not spinning the bb.  I was under the impression it did from your previous description.

Since, it's not...I need a picture of it dialed out and just dialed in where its protruding into the barrel about .5mm  Much like the sample picture I used.  The pictures you posted show way to much dial in.  You should be doing 1/4 turns from no hop, to insufficient hop, to too much hop and then back to the right hop for you bb.  Small adjustments...

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On 6/26/2020 at 9:42 AM, Guges Mk3 said:

Now with your additional comment...with it off..it's not spinning the bb.  I was under the impression it did from your previous description

Apologies for the very extended absence. Anyway, I can't actually be completely certain if there is absolutely no contact with the hop up completely dialed out. To be completely certain, I would have to remove the hop up system and compare how the weapon fires with the packing and nub removed to how it fires with the packing and nub in their place but dialed out completely. May I ask why it matters? Regardless of whether there is little contact or no contact with the hop up completely dialed out, I still experience performance inferior to that of my thompson smg. As things stand right now, I have a better chance of hitting someone at 60 yards with my thompson than my dragunov. 

 

On 6/26/2020 at 9:42 AM, Guges Mk3 said:

Thing is...the hop-up unit you have is not standard

 I apologize for the following question, as it may sound horribly ignorant. But, I was under the impression that all hop up systems (at least in AEGs) operated in essentially the same fashion; that is, an arm applies pressure to a nub, which concomitantly creates an indentation in the packing, and thus a small mound is present in the travel path of the bb. Could you explain what variables in different hop up systems might cause a ML packing and nub to perform differently in my hop up system than a standard one? 

On 6/26/2020 at 9:42 AM, Guges Mk3 said:

Specifically the point where the nub attaches to the arm

Could you post an example of this please?

On 6/26/2020 at 9:42 AM, Guges Mk3 said:

You should be doing 1/4 turns from no hop, to insufficient hop, to too much hop and then back to the right hop for you bb.  Small adjustments...

Well, as I mentioned before, there is a sweet spot, but only in the sense that beyond that point of dial-in the weapon ceases to function. I make infinitesimally tiny adjustments to the dial-in of the hop up, but I have not achieved the range or accuracy out of this thing I had hoped for. 

 

I hear that Novritsch is using a ML system in his new SSG 10. I don't think as highly as Novritsch as a lot of people. I feel his products are over-rated and that a skilled marksman can achieve similar results in terms of accuracy at impressive range with an upgraded s&t m1903 or VSR 10, but I can not deny that if Novritsch is using an ML in his SSG 10, I can probably put some stock in ML products. Perhaps what would be most helpful is if you could send me a picture of the hop up system of an airsoft gun that uses an ML product with success. It seems to me that instead of trying to find things wrong with my hop up system, we should see what's right about other hop up systems. Perhaps it won't be helpful at all, but I think it's worth a try. However if you don't, I place more stock in your opinions than in mine on the topic of airsoft. Thanks.

 

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You generalization that a hop-up is a hop up is incorrect.  Dive deeper into the details.  Like saying a car is a car...but you know there are MANY variations of cars and not all work the same. 

99% of Hop-ups are cantilever arm type.  Less than 1% is direct screw type.  Yours is a direct screw type.  It is far less forgiving in adjustment over the cantilever arm type.

Nothing uses a screw type other than the original Real Sword it was cloned from.

It's a not as precise of a design.  But, it's better than a fixed hop-up.  Thus that why your sweet spot is very small and adjustment is either mostly off, hardly working and then jamming your bbs.

RS-R8H01-1.jpg

 

Cantilever type

V2

GB-01-34.jpg

V3

retroarms-hop-up-chamber-ak-cnc-airsoft.
Thus your adjustment is on amount of turn, versus gearing (V2) or slider grade (V3).

As for ML it's a very proven product in "standard" AEG's and VSR sytems.  Your AEG is not standard...

As for how it looks...one can't really take a picture of a rubber sleeve inside a hop-up unit.  Other than if what has already been passed above in earlier posts.

photo-12.jpg
Sufficient protrusion.  Enough obstruction to spin a bb and won't jam it from passing.  A simple test is...put a bb in and it it should stay.  Then a light tap on the bb and it should pass right by and go down the barrel.  If it can't...you have to much dial in.

Edited by Guges Mk3

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56 minutes ago, Guges Mk3 said:

As for ML it's a very proven product in "standard" AEG's and VSR sytems.  Your AEG is not standard...

Is there any chance I could replace my current hop up unit with a standard one? It seems unlikely, but if I can, then I would certainly do that. 

58 minutes ago, Guges Mk3 said:

Nothing uses a screw type other than the original Real Sword it was cloned from.

It's a not as precise of a design.

Then why did RS choose to use a direct screw type? Is there any advantage at all? 

 

On 6/26/2020 at 9:42 AM, Guges Mk3 said:

I need a picture of the contact point of the CYMA hop-up.  Specifically the point where the nub attaches to the arm.

Still don't know what you mean by this.

 

From what I've heard about the RS SVD, it performs quite well right out of the box. Like 80 percent accuracy at 80-90 yards. If the RS uses the same hop up system, that is, the direct screw, that my CYMA uses, it seems to me that whatever packing and nub RS uses ought to work in my CYMA well, and I bet they don't use a stock nub. Do you know what packing and nub assembly the RS uses? 

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1.  I have not heard of anyone retrofitting a Standard V3 into a CYMA like yours.
2.  Simplicity in manufacturing.  It's actually copying an older Japanese design from 22+ years for receivers that you can open to access adjustment.

3.  What object holds your nub?

This is a Nub

31J+VZzglBL._AC_SX466_.jpg

 

  Take a picture of that nub holder and post it "in" the message.

 

Yes...they use a conventional nub and packing.  But don't assume your CYMA is made as well as a Real Sword.

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On 7/24/2020 at 3:22 PM, Guges Mk3 said:

1.  I have not heard of anyone retrofitting a Standard V3 into a CYMA like yours.

Ok. But can it be done? As I think about it, I think that as long as the standard V3 hop up unit fits in the same space my non-standard direct screw type fits into, and it seats properly into the space in the gun where the nozzle enters the hop up unit and makes a seal around the bb with the lips of the packing, there should be absolutely no reason that I can not use a standard V3 in my CYMA instead of the direct screw type. Of course, instead of doing that I could just attempt very carefully to perfectly tune the degree to which the ML mound protrudes into the barrel. 

 

On 7/24/2020 at 3:22 PM, Guges Mk3 said:

3.  What object holds your nub?

Well, the hop up arm at the end of the screw in my hop up system. But I assume that since you posted a picture of a nub, that's what you want a picture of. I will get that to you as soon as possible.

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You can't try what doesn't fit.

 

Due to the tolerances (or lack of) you may just have to run a traditional hop-up packing and nub and sacrifice the 6-8% improvement with the ML packing and nubs due to the lack of "fine" adjustment on your AEG.

Edited by Guges Mk3

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