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Guest TriChrome

Firepower Is Everything

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Guest TriChrome

Firepower is Everything

 

My philosophy on the utter dominance of Hi-Caps and Full-Auto

 

a collection of my thoughts and theories on the matter

 

 

 

 

For the ease of writing this article the term “low-cap user” refers to anybody who doesn’t use a hi-capacity magazine (with a capacity from 200-600+ rounds).

 

The term “low-cap” or “low-cap mag” refers to a STAR “real-cap” mag (from 20-30rds.), a standard TM mag (from 28rds. for a MP5K, to 80rds. for an AUG), or a mid-cap mag (from 100rds. for a MP5, to 160rds. for a M14 & AK mid-cap).

 

Don’t take this article as being the absolute truth, it’s my opinion, and I’m having fun writing it. I will be insulting (in a joking manner) all you low-cap users as a part of it. So don’t take it as a personal attack. Don’t take offense. I’m very sarcastic so read this thread with an open mind. I’ve taken small liberties here and there, but 99.9% of this is based on the physical properties of the 6mm Airsoft projectiles we shoot, and I’ve referenced websites on many of the facts I give.

 

One other theory I would like to explain is I believe most low-cap users almost exclusively use semi-auto fire since their mag has a smaller, more puny capacity. This may be an error on my part, but my experience in the last 2 years has shown that almost every person who uses low-cap magazines prefers semi-auto fire to full-auto fire. That’s not to say that they don’t use full-auto, but a gun with a 9.6v battery can empty a standard 68rd. Mag in around 3 seconds; whereas a 300rd. Hi-cap mag takes a full 15 seconds of continuous full-auto firing to be emptied, so you can see why a low-cap user would only use semi-auto. Even if you find a rare low-cap user who exclusively uses full-auto; the fact they have to reload many times to equal the capacity of a hi-cap, plus the time they can’t shoot while reloading is detrimental to effectiveness in an Airsoft skirmish. ...so when I say "low-cap user" I'm generally speaking about somebody who only uses low-cap mags and shoots in semi-auto exclusively.

 

 

 

 

The Doctrine:

 

Let me first start out with a true statement you cannot refute: A hi-cap user can do everything a low-cap user can do, and more. They can do more because their mags have a higher capacity, so they can shoot more without having to reload.

 

The first shot of both a semi-auto shot, and the first shot of a full-auto burst does the same thing; BUT, the full-auto burst has a good 20+ BB’s helping to find it’s way to the target. Which has the higher chance of hitting its target? The full-auto shot does. It also helps find the hole through any obstacles (branches, leaves, etc.) that may be between you and your target, and negate any effects of wind due to the “shotgun effect” at range (when you’re shooting at a target close to the maximum distance your gun can shoot, you’ll never have a 3” grouping. The BB’s on full-auto will cover a larger area like a shotgun filled with pellets does; that’s what I call the “shotgun effect”).

 

A common mantra for the hordes of people going to low-caps mags is the saying “high-caps aren’t realistic”. To me, the only thing that makes hi-cap magazines unrealistic is the rattling sound they make. Contrary to popular belief this sound will never give you away since even the lightest footsteps in a forest will make as much, or even more noise. Your mag-type speed-loaders you have to carry with you to load your low-caps make the same noise. The clicking of a speed-loader for you firepower-deprived low-cap users is a just as loud, if not a louder sound in the quiet of a forest.

 

Hi-capacity mags are not unrealistic for numerous reasons. Most of these reasons are due to the constraints of an AEG. This includes even a highly upgraded AEG at 400 FPS (the field limit at almost all fields).

 

To me, hi-capacity mags, and shooting in full auto make an Airsoft gun perform closer to the real thing.

 

 

 

 

The Unspoken Truth:

 

The below points are reflecting the inadequacy of our AEG’s, the positive points of using hi-caps and full-auto exclusively, as well as my reasons why hi-caps are superior in all aspects to low-cap magazines.

 

 

 

 

1.) Distance/Range: A standard military issue M16A2 has an effective range of 550 yards (1). Even a .45 ACP handgun has a good 50 yards (2). AEG’s, even upgraded ones, typically have an effective range of 50 yards or 150 feet. Go and measure that distance in your back yard if it’s large enough; it’s a pretty decent distance. Accuracy at that range, in real world conditions, is a different matter.

 

 

 

 

2.) Accuracy: Airsoft guns take many more shots to hit a target than a real gun will. Let’s face it, compared to real-guns, Airsoft guns have utterly horrible accuracy. That fact right there takes most of the validity out of anybody saying Airsoft is completely mil-sim ("it's more mil-sim" is the main argument for why low-cap users use low-cap mags). Your AEG can’t shoot even 1/11th the distance of a standard issue M16A2 can. You’re lucky to be able to hit a man-sized target at 60 yards with 1 shot; if there’s even a slight 5 MPH wind, or you hit a single leaf or thin twig (A), you’re out of luck.

 

Full-auto, and long bursts of full-auto negate the effect of wind to a great degree since the full-auto string of BB’s have a shotgun effect at range so you’re more likely to hit what you’re aiming at. You can also better see where your BB’s are hitting when there’s more of them in the air; this also helps with your accuracy and your chance of hitting the target.

 

Now in regards to distance and accuracy many people say the normal engagement range in Airsoft is about equal to what it is in real life military situations. This is not true unless you play exclusively CQB in places like MOUT training facilities. Most of us play in the woods. I equate that to the many battles fought during WW II. Most of those engagement distances were at and under 325 yards (3). The only other major military engagements with infantry troops (not in cities for the most part) since then would be Korea and Vietnam, and most of us don’t play in the jungle with those shorter engagement distances, nor do we play in cities like our troops in Iraq are facing right now.

 

(A) Many people counter argue that by saying that even a thin twig can deflect a huge fast moving bullet. That is true, but it's only true if it hits that obstacle during the first part of it's flight path; then it'll be off target by quite a bit when it gets to the range of the initial target. What I'm talking about in Airsoft is 99% of the time the person is hiding directly behind a bush or undergrowth in the forest. A real bullet can go through quite a lot of brush and hit what's directly behind it; that's the difference, and that's why that argument isn't valid.

 

 

 

 

3.) Wind: Many players accuse hi-cap users of not aiming, and just “walking the BB’s into the target”. When there’s the slightest bit of wind, what do you think you low-cap, semi-auto users do? It’s the same thing. You shoot one shot, then when you see you have to aim to the left about 5 feet because there’s a faint 10 MPH wind, then you adjust and take another shot, then adjust again, and again if needed.

 

When you have full-auto this is accomplished easier and faster, thus it’s more effective. A short 2 second burst of full-auto (or as long as you want, because let’s admit it, full-auto is just more fun to people like us) and you’ve correctly adjusted for any wind and hopefully hit your target in one fluid movement. Remember that after the first shot your enemy may hear the BB landing close to them, so they will find cover as fast as they can. With full-auto another 20+ BB’s are heading their way at the same time so it’s more effective than semi-auto fire in this aspect.

 

 

 

 

4.) Penetration: Airsoft BB’s have little to no penetration. When there’s 20 more BB’s coming from behind the first shot this will do two things; give you a better chance for that one BB to slip though the branches and leaves and hit your target, and that many BB’s on full auto will literally tear though small obstacles (even at medium range). Also see the footnote (A) of #2.

 

 

 

 

5.) Feeling your hits: We all know Airsoft is a game of honor. Some people say no matter what you may not feel your hits, but you’ll always feel or hear them. In many cases that is incorrect. But how can you hear those shots, which you don’t feel, when you have a gun shooting 400 FPS at 20 RPS screaming in your ear? Let alone the noise of the other people’s fire, people yelling commands, you yelling commands back, the radio earbud in your ear chirping away.....sometimes you don’t hear, see, or feel that one BB from a semi-auto gun. How can you see a BB bounce off your gear when you have one eye closed and the other peering through the small reticule of a scope or red-dot? Many people get tunnel vision when they’re engaging a single target. You have other things to look out for in the heat of battle besides seeing a single 6mm BB bounce off you.

 

At 100 feet distance, from a 320 FPS gun, a .2 gram BB (the most popular BB weight) is traveling at 100 FPS (4). I don’t know about you, but I almost exclusively engage targets at a greater range than 100 feet, and am almost always shot at around 100 feet. Can you hear a single BB, that’s only going 100 FPS hit your gear? A lot of the time you won’t, and there’s nothing wrong with it. It’s a honest mistake and you couldn’t have done anything to prevent it besides stop firing, and stand there to physically look down and look for a BB bouncing off you while you’re being fired upon. Right here is a perfect example of why full-auto, and being able to dish out ammo like any other because of your superiority in numbers (BB’s) over the evil pig-dog (I mean low-cap user), is when you hit your target there’s not just 1 BB they can feel or see or hear, but 20+ BB’s hitting and bouncing off all around them. If they call their hits in a honorable way, there’s no way they won’t call out (unless you blatantly missed). So here we even see full-auto fire making the players, and the game, able to be more honorable since it gives people a better chance to call their hits better (and a higher percentage of correct, honorable, “HIT!” calls).

 

 

 

 

6.) If soldiers could do it, they would. Why do you think we switched to the M16 platform for our armed services all those years ago? One of the greatest reasons was because the soldiers could carry much more of the 5.56mm ammo than they could of the bulkier and heavier M14 ammo. So if soldiers do it, how can you say it’s wrong to carry 300 BB’s in a single mag (when you factor in all the other points I’ve made)? You Darn well know if soldiers could carry 5,000 rounds with them they would. It’s their job to get every single advantage over the enemy they possibly can....so with that in mind how can you call hi-caps unrealistic? It’s an advantage plain and simple, and I don’t know why any smart person wouldn't take advantage of it.

 

Ever hear the saying “Peace though Superior Firepower”? In the Airsoft world there are no bigger caliber of BB’s (unless you count the uncommon 8mm which no AEG to my knowledge uses), So our only way to have “Superior Firepower” is to either throw more BB’s at the enemy thus giving us a higher chance of scoring a hit; have a faster ROF which doesn’t do much with a 30rd. Star mag for those semi-auto-only user; or upgrade the FPS of you gun, and semi-auto users and full-auto users can be at the same FPS, so again it goes to who’s the better shot (no difference between semi-auto or full-auto/hi-cap users), or who can throw more BB’s down range (which the hi-cap users can do better, for longer, and don’t have to reload as often).

 

There's another mantra that the military goes by, it goes something like "win at all costs and use every available advantage to do so". Do you really think if soldiers could carry more ammo comfortably (without impeding their movement) they wouldn't? But for some reason that seems to be what low-cap users allude to.

 

 

 

 

7.) Mid-Caps. For you mid-cap posers, especially people with AK’s or M14’s, your “mid-cap” can hold almost as much as a MP5 hi-cap; 160rds. for the AK & M14 mid-cap vs. 200rds. for the MP5 hi-cap; and when you factor in how many BB’s are stuck in the hi-cap’s feeding tube, and left in the bottom of the mag (they don’t feed every single BB), it’s extremely close. This qualifies you as a “poser”. You like to say you’re more realistic, and more mil-sim because you don’t use hi-caps, yet your mag capacity is almost the same as a MP5 hi-cap (which is an extremely common gun on the field). For you mid-cap users: I hope you seriously consider these points before you think or say something bad about a person who uses hi-caps because you’re dangerously close to the same ammo capacity per mag (and you probably carry more mid-caps then they carry hi-caps).

 

I know many people swear by G&P (or other brand) mid-caps. You love them and don’t use anything else. I’ll tell you right now, and I know this by personal experience (of the broken wallet kind), and from how many people I know in person, and how many posts I read about mid-caps mis-feeding, that these are a less than ideal solution. The BB’s are double stacked in a nice long “U”, or even “S”like formation inside the mag. This leads to many people having feeding problems with mid-cap magazines. I experienced it personally with my 8 G&P M16 mid-caps which I had to sell at a loss, and my G36 STAR mid-caps as well. They never, ever, fed right 100% of the time (90% and below just won’t cut it for me), and they always seem to misfeed when you have that perfect shot. I tried every trick in the book on them and neither brand worked right all the time. Swear all you want that yours work perfectly, many, many, peoples do not.

 

 

 

 

8.) Ammo is cheap. Shooting full-auto for me and many others is a great feeling. Think of every shoot-'em-up movie you’ve ever seen. Think of all those Stallone and Schwarzenegger movies you grew up loving......yet you nasty low-cap users look down on us. You think we use full-auto fire and hi-caps as a crutch for our horrible aim and lack of tactics. You say nasty thinks like “that’s un-realistic”, “you’re not mil-sim”, “eww, you have 8 M4 hi-caps and 7 MP5 hi-caps, why do you need 3,840 loaded rounds?”. Well, I guess the last quote is more of a rhetorical question....I need, and have that much loaded firepower because I can. I have that many BB’s loaded in mags, ready to cover your entire location with bouncing white BB’s because I can and I like it. Can you keep 3 different skilled players pinned down in separate locations for a half hour with semi-auto fire? That would be a feat I would like to see. As soon as you reload I’m jumping up with 24 RPS with your name on them. And by the way, it doesn’t really matter if I hit you or not, I like keeping people pinned down as much as I like getting a “kill”....just shooting the gun at a inanimate object like a tree is something I enjoy almost as much.

 

A dedicated hi-cap user should be buying BB’s by the case (or at least splitting a case with a couple people). For the best quality BB’s on the market, Airsoft Elite .25’s, cost .35 cents each ($.0035) including shipping factored in. That’s about 1 cent for every 3 BB’s. That’s a $1.05 per 300rd. M4/M16 Hi-cap. Now how much joy does shooting an entire hi-cap, on full-auto, at an enemy, while playing dress-up soldier give you? To me, and people like me, it’s worth much more than $1.05.

 

 

 

 

9.) Drum/Box mags: My thoughts on drum mags may be to the contrary to what you think I would say. I only think drum-mags should be used on guns if they produce a drum-mag for the real steal. Furthermore, I believe these drum mags should only be used on guns that can sustain that many rounds through them without malfunctioning.

 

An example is the M16/M4. They do make a real drum mag for the M16. But the problem is if you emptied even 2 of these drum mags through the gun in a short period of time the gun would overheat and malfunction. For the sake or realism, I do not like, and will not use, a drum mag on my M16 (or any gun with the same circumstances in regards to this).

 

Guns like the M249 & M60 which are dedicated support weapons in real life do have drum mags and they can empty tons of rounds before the gun overheats (or you have to quick-change the barrel). Drum mags on these guns are great!

 

....yet, why do low-cap users have no problems with a CA M249 with a Star 5,000rd. box mag attached to it? A real M249 box mag carries 200 rounds. So why are people OK with a 25:1 ratio of BB's in a M249, yet a 10:1 ratio in a M4 with a hi-cap is ruining the mil-sim aspects of Airsoft?

 

 

 

 

10.) Just because you use hi-caps, and full-auto spray a lot does NOT necessarily mean you lack tactics. It also does NOT mean you lack fire control; it can simply mean you love the joy of full-auto fire as much as the low-cappers hate it (and I secretly think they’re just mad you have more firepower than them).

 

 

 

 

11.) You can’t give suppressive fire adequetly (not saying you positively can’t) without full-auto; and for those people who use low-caps, your barrage of full-auto will be as short lived as the capacity of your mag. In Airsoft suppressive fire usually keeps heads down because they hear an almighty barrage of BB's hitting whatever they're hiding behind (and don't pop up from behind it). Hearing 1 BB a second hitting what you're hiding behind doesn't have the same effect.....especially if there's more than 1 person you're trying to suppress.

 

 

 

 

12.) BB’s travel very slow through the air. With a real gun the shot is almost instantaneous at its target since the bullet travels so fast. People can dodge a BB as it flies through the air, even if it’s shot from a 400 FPS AEG. But trying to dodge 50 BB’s with no good cover nearby is something almost impossible to do. Full-auto fire in this instance can make the difference between the kill, and being killed yourself.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In conclusion:

 

Join the Hi-Cap Revolution

 

Down to semi-auto and low-caps!

 

 

Screw semi-auto fire. Screw low-caps. That’s right, I said it. Don’t be ashamed you love your full-auto beast and feed this monster with hi-capacity magazines by the dozen. There’s nothing wrong with it. Litter the dead bodies before you with specs of white plastic. Make the field look like a snow storm passed by in the dead heat of winter.

 

If you’re sick and tired of these low-cap fools who tell you they’re so much more “mil-sim” than you are because you use hi-caps, take this chance to join the H.C.R. (Hi-Cap Revolution), and preach the gospel you have learned and give a rebuttal to every false truth they try to preach you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Other random reasons why hi-cap mags and full-auto is so much better than low-caps and semi-auto:

 

You can use them as an complement to music. Let’s see you make a maraca out of a low-cap.

 

They’re more similar in weight (fully filled) than a low-cap, thus they’re more mil-sim.

 

You can pull the tab on the top and spew BB’s out on a target (I know some low-caps have this easy release feature, but they don’t make the cool unwinding noise which frightens the person you just killed). And a “hi-cap Mag kill” is much cooler than a fake rubber knife kill.

 

You can cut down small branches with ease.

 

Using them pisses off low-cap users.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Endnote:

 

I wrote this very long article because of several reasons. One of them is the flack I get at my local field for using hi-caps. Another is the rule change for Op: Irene, followed by a low-cap only game at my home field, and then a rule change (no hi-caps) for Battle For Tolland IV was announced just yesterday.

 

But more importantly, I would like to thank all of you low-cap users who prompted me to write this article and start the Hi-Cap Revolution. To all you low-cap users who sincerely think they're better players because they don't use hi-caps, thank you for living under a false pretence. Hey, it may work for you, but it's not everybody's playing style, and it is blatantly wrong for you to judge people who use hi-caps in a negative manner. Do you like how I treated you in this article? ...I didn't think so. Think before you speak when you do the same to a hi-cap user.

Edited by TriChrome

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Guest Razorwind

Well, at least you got it off your chest and out in the open. :a-grin:

 

You almost make me want to use hicaps. IDK, I still think that a Spetsnaz looks silly with a long Star mag hanging out. I may just stick with those shorter 250 rounders that come with it.

 

Good article, I got some thinking to do.

Edited by Razorwind

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#8) Ammo. I have done some searching and haven't found a place to get BBs by the case. Might you be so kind as to pass that info along as to where bulk BBs are available? Thanks.

 

Nice write by the way, although the red was a little small and hard to read. Might just be my old eyes.

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Best. Writeup. Ever.

 

 

Yes. Very good. I just have something I want to say about 5.56mm bullets. Those things can ricochet off things very badly. My father told me when he was hunting with guys with 5.56mm bullets he would occasionally see one with a tracer bounce off a twig straight up into the air at a 90 degree angle, or to the sides or down, but thankfully never all the way around. So, when they get inside someones body, they bounce around and tear the :pain: up out of them internally. It can bounce off a bone and hit the...heart, or liver, or lungs or whatever. Those 7 something mm bullets don't bounce around as easily, so they have been known to go right through fat without hitting a major organ, and just causing bleeding without serious harm. Crazy. Us humans are some murderous things, inventing something to cause people to get torchered from the inside out. Gots to be killin them Al Queda. Evil S.O.B.s....

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Guest m1a1thompson

This sounds awesome. Now all you have to do is merge with Battlepriest and make the P.H.O.R. (Pistol Hi-cap Only Revolution).

 

Also, there are many who use hi-caps out of necessity, like me. Some people with relatively unusual weapons, such as Thompsons, can't afford buying 7 low-caps ($175) when the same amount of ammunition can be held with one hi-cap ($40-50).

 

Edit: Corrected some math.

Edited by m1a1thompson

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Good read. Tainted with a bit of rage maybe. But good. Im a High-cap user, but only because it's cheaper to load 420 rounds in one high cap than to load 420 rounds in seven lo-caps. But when I buy more mags, I'm going lo-caps. No offense, but 70 rounds per mags is about all I realy need to cover for the lack of effective range, accuracy, penetration in an airsoft gun.

 

EDIT- It looks like you and me are in the same boat M1A1.

Edited by hsimoorb

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Yes. Very good. I just have something I want to say about 5.56mm bullets. Those things can ricochet off things very badly. My father told me when he was hunting with guys with 5.56mm bullets he would occasionally see one with a tracer bounce off a twig straight up into the air at a 90 degree angle, or to the sides or down, but thankfully never all the way around. So, when they get inside someones body, they bounce around and tear the :pain: up out of them internally. It can bounce off a bone and hit the...heart, or liver, or lungs or whatever. Those 7 something mm bullets don't bounce around as easily, so they have been known to go right through fat without hitting a major organ, and just causing bleeding without serious harm. Crazy. Us humans are some murderous things, inventing something to cause people to get torchered from the inside out. Gots to be killin them Al Queda. Evil S.O.B.s....

 

In addition, the .223 round wants to tumble or yaw upon impact.

 

I was planning on buying 2 mid cap magazines to go along with my 2 hi caps. I wanted the mid caps because the idea of not having to wind the magazine was intriguing. After this write up, I see no reason to buy the mid caps. I will just get 2 more hi caps.

 

Thank you for taking the time to give us your opinions.

Edited by Conrad

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This sounds awesome. Now all you have to do is merge with Battlepriest and make the P.H.O.R. (Pistol Hi-cap Only Revolution).

 

Also, there are many who use hi-caps out of necessity, like me. Some people with relatively unusual weapons, such as Thompsons, can't afford buying 8 low-caps ($400) when the same amount of ammunition can be held with one hi-cap ($40-50).

 

 

$400 dollars? I guess if they are custom for that gun, but still...And you can buy one good or two not so good springers with 50 bucks. This discourages me.

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Guest m1a1thompson
$400 dollars? I guess if they are custom for that gun, but still...And you can buy one good or two not so good springers with 50 bucks. This discourages me.

Thompson low-caps are $25 each. 8 makes $200. I just took a Latin exam, give me a break.

Edited by m1a1thompson

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On the realism front, how many rounds do you need to fire to have the accuracy of 1 real bullet? 2 or 3 seem like enough. So somewhere between 50-100 rounds.

 

Not the point, at least to me. Realism, for me, relates to the frequency of mag changes. Since airsoft guns are pretty much realistic with ROF, that means realcaps give the most realistic feel to the battle.

 

One really bad problem with this piece is the constant talk about semi auto firing. As if all locap users use only semi. Huh? I've never even heard of that. I only use locaps, and I never use semi. Why use semi? Real assault rifles and smgs use auto fire all the time. Auto fire is the defining feature of both types of weapons. It takes a good 3-4 seconds to empty a star mag. That is plenty of full auto.

 

High caps emphasize the "silly toy" aspect of airsoft.....and changing mags is fun.

 

...and I have never carried a loader into battle. 280 rounds for my aeg and 140 for my (full auto) pistol have always been plenty.

 

...and you can suppress with realcaps, real soldiers do it all the time.

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Guest TriChrome
You almost make me want to use hicaps. IDK, I still think that a Spetsnaz looks silly with a long Star mag hanging out. I may just stick with those shorter 250 rounders that come with it.

Those 250 rounders are hi-caps!

 

 

 

 

#8) Ammo. I have done some searching and haven't found a place to get BBs by the case. Might you be so kind as to pass that info along as to where bulk BBs are available? Thanks.

I went to AirsoftElite.com and sent them an email asking about ordering BB's by the case. They wrote me back with prices and I paypaled them the money.

 

 

 

 

Yes. Very good. I just have something I want to say about 5.56mm bullets. Those things can ricochet off things very badly.

Yes, if they hit something in mid-flight they most likely won't hit what you're aiming at unless it's a building. What I was trying to say is in Airsoft we usually only shoot through brush when there's a person hiding right behind it. In that case, even when a bullet is deflected, if would most likely still hit it's intended target.

 

 

 

 

On the realism front, how many rounds do you need to fire to have the accuracy of 1 real bullet? 2 or 3 seem like enough. So somewhere between 50-100 rounds.

It depends. With no wind and your target is 20 yards away, 1 shot should do it. 30 yards and some wind, maybe 5 shots max. Add wind and they're using a very sparce bush for cover, maybe 50 BB's. 50 yards away, and no wind, maybe 2-3-5 shots. 60 yards away, maybe you're back to 50. These are just numbers I made up (I've done no tests, besides Airsoft game experience), but hopefully you get the point.

 

 

Not the point, at least to me. Realism, for me, relates to the frequency of mag changes.

That is most of it, but all you ever hear about is mag capacity.

 

 

One really bad problem with this piece is the constant talk about semi auto firing. As if all locap users use only semi. Huh? I've never even heard of that. I only use locaps, and I never use semi. Why use semi? Real assault rifles and smgs use auto fire all the time. Auto fire is the defining feature of both types of weapons. It takes a good 3-4 seconds to empty a star mag. That is plenty of full auto

I think you may be the exception to the rule. At the 5+ fields I play at semi-auto is king with the low-cap users.

 

Real soldiers using M16's rarely use full-auto since it isn't accurate (even with a M16 which has very low recoil). Many of the guns only have a 3-round burst option (no full-auto....correct me if I'm wrong).

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Yes, in the U.S. army full auto isn't realy something soldiers are trained to do. They want one-shot-one kill for all soldiers. In airsoft, I am inclined to say that is impossible, even if your a sharpshooter. Because IMO, if you're not doing a fiar bit of suppressing fire in addition to the shots that realy count, you just plain aren't doing your job. However, I think that High-caps take away all disadvantages of this tactic. Suppressing fire is supposed to make you run out of ammo. You burn off a mag, in hopes of covering a teammate, then reload. If you've got 300 rounds to play with, I think this aspect of the game is basicaly destroyed.

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Guest babybackribs
Real soldiers using M16's rarely use full-auto since it isn't accurate (even with a M16 which has very low recoil). Many of the guns only have a 3-round burst option (no full-auto....correct me if I'm wrong).

 

True. The M16 A2 has semi and 3 round burst, but I think the A3 and A4 have full auto, but soldiers still use short bursts due to the recoil factor. I only use hicaps, but the field I play at only allows full auto with mags that don't require winding. (STAR lowcaps, midcaps=full auto, hicaps=semi only-ironic, isn't it?) To me, hicaps are the only way to go, unless you want to get your a$$ kicked.

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Guest general pain

Amen to that trichrome! I love full-auto, and I love having magazines that feed. I hate my G&P mid-caps, they never feed right thats why I am trading them in for hi-caps.

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The only reason I use locaps are because it helps me conserve ammo. I usually use 200-300 shots per game, and it doesn't seem very challenging or fun to just use two mid caps or one hi cap.

 

I agree with every point otherwise.

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The only reason I use locaps are because it helps me conserve ammo. I usually use 200-300 shots per game, and it doesn't seem very challenging or fun to just use two mid caps or one hi cap.

 

I agree with every point otherwise.

 

I agree with your first point, I don't agree with your last. TriChrome I could see why you wrote this, you get so much flak from all of these "low cap users". I would like to say I'm a locap user, but I haven't gotten around to buying a box of STAR mags yet, although I plan to.

 

I bought 2 G&P midcaps just to save some $$$ with my M4, I think they feed flawlessly, but that's my personal experience. I also use my TM lowcap. However, I rarely go through one magazine in a single "round". I play with friends and it's mostly 5 on 5 to 6 on 6 at most, so I don't exactly need too much ammo. I find the idea of not reloading in one round kind of....well.....boring.

 

Everything is relative, let me say that first. If you need 300 round hi caps because it levels the playing field an you have 30+ members on the opposite team, so be it. I'm actually fine with hi-cap users. It's just the few that literally do not aim (and I don't mean windage adjustment by this, I mean just firing from the hip) that give them a bad reputation. I have a few friends who do this, and I tend to try to not get into direct firefights, I tend to try to get a stealthy short burst of full auto on them.

 

I fire 3-5 round full auto bursts when I want to be 100% sure that I hit a target. If they are farther away and both of our guns are at their limits, I use semi-auto just to be annoying. I don't like to spray ammo at them and use the "shotgun effect" at 150 feet. Semi shots have a low percent of hitting at that distance but I use it to just keep them feeling like they're in danger and having to dodge bullets or find cover.

 

Full auto is the way to make sure someone is hit, I understand that. It would just be better if people would have to full auto for a few seconds and then reload, so everything is more balanced. Just remember this (I remember seeing it somewhere on this board), airsoft full auto is like a laser compared to real steel. Being directly in front of a real steel MP5K is the safest place to be. And isn't the whole point of airsoft to simulate the military?

 

I can see your argument TriChrome, I definately can. It's just that if we're actually simulating the military, they don't have a boatload of rounds so I see it as neither should we. But, it's all opinion. And one more thing, I don't like going through $20 a game and using 4,000 rounds. Being 15, I don't have all the money in the world to be buying BB's with. Using 1,000 a game is perfect for me. It's whatever suits you best.

 

Remember people we're just having fun in different ways. Don't bash users of the opposite side in this issue, just sarcastically make fun of them :a-laugh: .

 

Hopefully I'll get to meet you on the field someday TriChrome and lecture you on your blasphemous ways :a-wink: .

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Guest btking

I'm still sticking with low-caps. Why? Because if you adjust your hop-up enough, and then actually sight in your scope you should be getting good enough accuracy with .20 gram bb's and maybe some internal modifications. People just don't take the time ti sight their gun in, and then look like paint-softers holding down the trigger with a high cap, running around like a hooligan and swinging their gun at anything that moves. Why do you even play airsoft anyways? Oh. Because the guns are more accurate to real guns. Right. Then why are you shooting the gun in a way, and using magazines that are in no way accurate to real guns? Why aren't you just playing paintball?

 

Death to high caps, long live MilSim and the low caps.

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Guest TriChrome
It's just the few that literally do not aim (and I don't mean windage adjustment by this, I mean just firing from the hip) that give them a bad reputation. I have a few friends who do this, and I tend to try to not get into direct firefights, I tend to try to get a stealthy short burst of full auto on them.

Good for you. I can't stand people who fire from the hip (and don't aim), but fortunately there are very few people like that at the fields I go to.

 

 

I can see your argument TriChrome, I definately can. It's just that if we're actually simulating the military, they don't have a boatload of rounds so I see it as neither should we.

Yes, but the militaries' M16's can shoot accurately to 550 yards. When you factor in all the other problems with our AEG's you need many, many more rounds to have the same effect as a real gun. That's why I have no problem carrying 9 hi-caps for my primary and still call myself "mil-sim".

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm still sticking with low-caps. Why? Because if you adjust your hop-up enough, and then actually sight in your scope you should be getting good enough accuracy with .20 gram bb's and maybe some internal modifications.

Evidently you don't even grasp the basic mechanics of an Airsoft gun if you're using .2 gram BB's.

 

 

People just don't take the time ti sight their gun in, and then look like paint-softers holding down the trigger with a high cap, running around like a hooligan and swinging their gun at anything that moves.

Yes, some unskilled people just hold down the trigger, but many do the same thing with standard mags as well. There's a difference between not aiming, and using hi-caps to their full potential.

 

 

 

 

 

Why do you even play airsoft anyways? Oh. Because the guns are more accurate to real guns. Right. Then why are you shooting the gun in a way, and using magazines that are in no way accurate to real guns? Why aren't you just playing paintball?

I take it you didn't read my entire post. I go into detail about how hi-caps overcome the physically deficient properties of our lightweight, innaccurate, 6mm firing AEG's; and how hi-caps and full-auto can make the game more realistic in so many ways.

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Guest Wesker

6.) If soldiers could do it, they would.

 

The only one I really feel like going at.

 

If soldeirs could use G () D mode they would. And if doing something a soldier would do if the could is realism....Keep that in mind next time your 300 rounds are plinking into my IBA and I continue to walk at you firing semi-automatic with my stock rifle.

 

Your just mad Tolland banned hi-caps. :a-jester:

 

Full-auto is effective if you use it right. In Vietnam they trained people to empty a rifle magazine on full auto with out aiming and getting all 20 shots into their target. But in Vietnam they also carried over 20 magazines. But in modern combat only SAW gunners have it.[Full Auto]

 

And that range of airsoft vs range of real steel never made much sense to me. Since your all at the same range. Its like Grunts saying they need drum magazines becuase their M16 doesnt go as far as a Barret Light Fifty.

 

Owell I feel fine knowing I am as combat effective with only 9 standards as people with 3 or more hi-caps. Supress fire isnt about a wall. Just need shots to put them down. Which it only takes 1 well aimed shot to do so.

 

Until I see a soldier winding up his mags it will never be realistc. Full auto in a rifle is also largely unrealstic as most none CQB rifles are restricted to burst control.

 

And yes real rifles have more range but that still doesnt mean anything. Heck the means you need to get closer which should use less ammo.

 

And how many of you agreeing carrying only a hi-cap or two becuase its all you need? You should be ashamed. Atleast carry the right ammount.

 

My team has banned hi-caps and we are still highly effective assaulters.

Edited by Wesker

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Guest Royal_Marine
Yes. Very good. I just have something I want to say about 5.56mm bullets. Those things can ricochet off things very badly. My father told me when he was hunting with guys with 5.56mm bullets he would occasionally see one with a tracer bounce off a twig straight up into the air at a 90 degree angle, or to the sides or down, but thankfully never all the way around. So, when they get inside someones body, they bounce around and tear the :pain: up out of them internally. It can bounce off a bone and hit the...heart, or liver, or lungs or whatever. Those 7 something mm bullets don't bounce around as easily, so they have been known to go right through fat without hitting a major organ, and just causing bleeding without serious harm. Crazy. Us humans are some murderous things, inventing something to cause people to get torchered from the inside out. Gots to be killin them Al Queda. Evil S.O.B.s....

 

 

Actually that is not correct, the common problem the guys had in Vietnam was that the bullets were so aerodynamic they tore straight through the NVA and VC soldiers (sometimes not injuring them at all) whereas the AK fired more of a slug because the ammunition was a little more rudimentary. Nowadays the 5.56mm has only slightly improved and still in some circumstances is frustrating for the soldiers although inovations are constantly being made in this area.

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Dude. This is one of the best airsoft doctrines I've seen. Great Job, I love it, and it does make sense!

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Guest misfits138
This sounds awesome. Now all you have to do is merge with Battlepriest and make the P.H.O.R. (Pistol Hi-cap Only Revolution).

 

Also, there are many who use hi-caps out of necessity, like me. Some people with relatively unusual weapons, such as Thompsons, can't afford buying 7 low-caps ($175) when the same amount of ammunition can be held with one hi-cap ($40-50).

 

Edit: Corrected some math.

 

 

YES! YES! YES!

 

People need to pay more attention to WWII type and similar type stuff airsofters, I have seen way too many M4s than Id like

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I'm still sticking with low-caps. Why? Because if you adjust your hop-up enough, and then actually sight in your scope you should be getting good enough accuracy with .20 gram bb's and maybe some internal modifications. People just don't take the time ti sight their gun in, and then look like paint-softers holding down the trigger with a high cap, running around like a hooligan and swinging their gun at anything that moves. Why do you even play airsoft anyways? Oh. Because the guns are more accurate to real guns. Right. Then why are you shooting the gun in a way, and using magazines that are in no way accurate to real guns? Why aren't you just playing paintball?

 

Death to high caps, long live MilSim and the low caps.

 

Can't believe this is happening but AMEN! With some minor corrections of course. I think this marks the end of me flaming you BTking.

 

6.) If soldiers could do it, they would.

 

The only one I really feel like going at.

 

If soldeirs could use G () D mode they would. And if doing something a soldier would do if the could is realism....Keep that in mind next time your 300 rounds are plinking into my IBA and I continue to walk at you firing semi-automatic with my stock rifle.

 

Your just mad Tolland banned hi-caps. :a-jester:

 

Full-auto is effective if you use it right. In Vietnam they trained people to empty a rifle magazine on full auto with out aiming and getting all 20 shots into their target. But in Vietnam they also carried over 20 magazines. But in modern combat only SAW gunners have it.[Full Auto]

 

And that range of airsoft vs range of real steel never made much sense to me. Since your all at the same range. Its like Grunts saying they need drum magazines becuase their M16 doesnt go as far as a Barret Light Fifty.

 

Owell I feel fine knowing I am as combat effective with only 9 standards as people with 3 or more hi-caps. Supress fire isnt about a wall. Just need shots to put them down. Which it only takes 1 well aimed shot to do so.

 

Until I see a soldier winding up his mags it will never be realistc. Full auto in a rifle is also largely unrealstic as most none CQB rifles are restricted to burst control.

 

And yes real rifles have more range but that still doesnt mean anything. Heck the means you need to get closer which should use less ammo.

 

And how many of you agreeing carrying only a hi-cap or two becuase its all you need? You should be ashamed. Atleast carry the right ammount.

 

My team has banned hi-caps and we are still highly effective assaulters.

 

Completely AMEN AMEN HALLEHLUYA!

 

Reading your little thingy made me want to puke Trichrome. I have no less respect for you as a Mod on this forum but it is that kind of attitude that makes me want to play only in closed games or on fields that have a no high cap rule. Everyone is the same distance apart so the difference in accuracy is a completely moot point. Seeing as how I am also a sarcastic :ranting: I am going to call you a paintsofter with better guns and gear.

 

 

Is the size of your magazine compensating for something Trichrome?

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Guest Logik

I totally agree with trichrome here... in my opinion, there is a line between keeping the game fun or impeeding this fun for the sake of "realism". and yeah I know low caps are fun to use as well, and reloading makes you feel like a bada$$ but I find that unless your strapped to the teeth with locaps than your going to be spending more time reloading than shooting. and seriously, to what extent are you wiling to go for milsim? whats next? you gonna carry ketchup packet on you to splatter yourself whenever you get shot? you gonna get a dumptruck full of sand and turn your backyard into the desert? and seriously, the human body can live 3 whole days without water, why do you feel you need a personal hydration system strapped to your back every game?

 

Now don't get me wrong I love milsim, thats why I love this game so much, but I feel there is a line in which you tell yourself IT IS A GAME. enjoy it! drop the resentment towards hicappers and just enjoy the game. VIVA LE REVOLUTION!

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Guest Lacessit
Join the Hi-Cap Revolution

 

Down to semi-auto and low-caps!

 

No. While I understand your position, my objection to high-caps is not due to my better tactics or being a better simulator. My objection lies solely in the propensity of high-cap users to simply hold down the trigger for minutes on end with no attempt at aiming, and the fact that their "unlimited" supply of ammo allows them to (basically) ignore any reloading factor.

 

I freely admit my oppinion is based purely on my experience with those I've come in contact with, and that if they were able to refrain from submitting to their high-cap disease and practice some form of fire control I would have no problem with them.

 

-In my defense, I've actually encountered a player that had a modified M4 "super shorty" that had a box mag. After keeping me pinned down for 25 minutes, he ran out of ammo (ALL 3000 ROUNDS) at which point I stuck my head out and shot him with a 3-round burst. That's just annoying as all hell, even if I did get to laugh at him later (at which point he got all defensive).

 

That said, I ask you to honestly examine the majority of high cap users. How many of them do you think actually use any restraint while using high caps?

Edited by Lacessit

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Guest general pain

All these people must be incredible shots. If everyone says it takes one shot to kill someone, does that mean for every magazine you waste you get 68 kills. If so, dang thats pretty amazing.... I have a lot of respect for you...

 

I understand that some people who use hi-caps just hold down the trigger, but you can't group every hi-cap user in that catagory. I personally carry 3 hicaps on me in my vest. I have only used more then 1 hi-cap n a game once.

 

Full-auto is effective if you use it right. In Vietnam they trained people to empty a rifle magazine on full auto with out aiming and getting all 20 shots into their target. But in Vietnam they also carried over 20 magazines

 

Did you just say spraying the general area where the enemy is, is good....but only if you have to change magazines? Or am I reading that wrong (which I probably am)...

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Guest m1a1thompson

From a financial standpoint, it is better to use a hi-cap. While some may argue that more ammo is used by the hi-cap, making you spend more, this only occurs after a lot of playing.

 

Here is a chart explaining the financial advantage of being a hi-cap user.

 

The chart shows the difference in relative cost between a M-4 hi-cap and 10 Star M-4 low-caps with an additional $50 of gear to carry them in. This chart assumes that all rounds are used per game; however, this is often not the case. The low-cap user will more than likely end up reloading, skewing these results in favor of the hi-cap user. Also, Star low-caps will break faster than the high-cap will. This also will skew the results in favor of the hi-cap user.

 

The BB cost previously stated by Trichrome ($.0035) was used.

Edited by m1a1thompson

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Guest BattlePriest

THAT was a GREAT Article.... Made me laugh quite a few times too...

 

BUT I have to chime in here.

 

I KNOW that TriChrome, is not a sprayer.... I still don't like that he carries HiCaps, but at least I know that he uses them EFFECTIVELY by using his sights and making all his ammo count.

 

But heres the rub....

 

He is a RARE case when it comes to HiCap users. So his defense of Hi Cap users only encompases about 30 percent of them. 45 percent of them if you count those that INTEND to use them as he does, but in the end don't.

 

Chromy, you know I love ya.... but 55-70 percent of ALL Hi Cap users I have come into contact with, either shoot from the hip, or aim with their bbs... and spray spray spray.....

 

THIS is the problem with Hi Caps... because of what they can turn an otherwise great player into.

 

And yeah... the range and accuracy compensation excuse is just that.... when we are all shooting at the spproximate same range, you can't use that excuse.

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Very well-written. I just bought a new 600-round hicap for my AK47. And what may surprise some of you is that I usually use semi-auto no matter what capacity mags I'm using (I will occasionally use full auto burst).

 

On a side note: How long did it take you to write all that?

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Guest ponzotheclown

nicely done. however, I do not agree at all with ANYTHING you just said.

 

ever scince I read Battlepriests (I think) "Situational Awareness" topic, I have taken ammo consideration and semi-automatic to heart.

 

I suggest that you all read "Situational Awareness" and learn some things from it. low-caps are more fun, less expensive (assuming you arnt a trigger happy psyco and you have to buy a jillion of them) and it doesent feel like a squirtgun war when you embrace semi-auto.

Edited by ponzotheclown

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Guest BattlePriest
nicely done. however, I do not agree at all with ANYTHING you just said.

 

ever scince I read Battlepriests (I think) "Situational Awareness" topic, I have taken ammo consideration and semi-automatic to heart.

 

I suggest that you all read "Situational Awareness" and learn some things from it. low-caps are more fun, less expensive (assuming you arnt a trigger happy psyco and you have to buy a jillion of them) and it doesent feel like a squirtgun war when you embrace semi-auto.

 

Wasn't me.... you will have to provide a link.

 

Oh and Chromy... when I get time, I am going to do a point by point rebuttle :a-jester:

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I was starting to feel bad that I had just bought 4 low caps.... but then I realized, I'm NOT the shoot-from-the-hipper person, I've only had do do that once, because I was using my friend's $30 lpeg,which the bullets were so slow you could dodge at 20 feet. Viva la BP!!!(idk french)

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Cheap MAG brand mid-caps have made going the middle road a practical affordable route. I have spent a total of $60 on mags and can carry 8-10 mags with 120 rounds each.

 

I know I know, I'll shut up, it's your thread -- just saying, 120 rounds is enough to make up for hte problems you stated for low-caps (wind, rante, feeling hits, etc. etc.).

 

Afraid I won't join your revolution quite yet ;)

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Best. Writeup. Ever.

 

I totally agree. you did great.

but the only reason I don't use high-caps (or wouldnt in my case) is because 1.) im usually the stealthy play who sneaks around the back and knife kills/neck snap (not really, just firmly grap their neck ans say, "your dead") untill I get to the point when the other members notice me. with hi-caps, theyd hear me right away with all that rattling and somtimes I just end up using just a pistol. and 2.) the hi-caps would rattle in my vest, if they even fit. and like I said, I usually sneak around the back. now if I were the one to assult or give cover fire, id be glad to use high caps. so really, it just depends what im doing. and this is where mid-caps come into play..

 

but you did great. :a-thumbsup:

Edited by imarocker73

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Guest m1a1thompson
low-caps are more fun, less expensive (assuming you arnt a trigger happy psyco and you have to buy a jillion of them)

See my last post. Low-caps are more expensive, even when using Star low-caps.

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