Jump to content
WhiteGrass

The Average Airsofter

So, everyone.  

850 members have voted

  1. 1. Do You Consider Yourself A Redneck?

    • Yes
      85
    • No
      765
  2. 2. What is your average income per year, in dollars?

    • I'm Unemployed
      175
    • 5,000-10,000
      92
    • 10,000-30,000
      50
    • 30,000-60,000
      61
    • 60,000-100,000
      23
    • 100,000-200,000
      22
    • 200,000-500,000
      8
    • 500,000+
      9
    • I'm Just A Kid
      410
  3. 3. Age?

    • >12
      4
    • 12
      17
    • 13
      73
    • 14
      128
    • 15
      163
    • 16
      129
    • 17
      81
    • 18
      53
    • 19-30
      150
    • 30+
      52
  4. 4. Politcal Affilation?

    • Republican
      344
    • Democrat
      172
    • Independent
      178
    • Other
      156
  5. 5. Do You hunt, and what us your opinion on it?

    • Yes
      205
    • No, but I want to.
      253
    • No, it's sick and cruel.
      66
    • No, and I don't care either.
      326


Recommended Posts

***EDIT by BP***

 

The following ground rule concerning this poll MUST be followed for this poll to remain open.

 

There will be absolutely NO discussion relating to politics in this thread... period. Make your poll choices and leave it at that.

 

Carry On.

 

***************

 

I've decided my parents were slowly taking the media's outlook on Airsoft, and I've decided to write a paper. Please don't argue over anything, especially politics. I know some of the stuff here is against forum rules, but it should be okay if we don't argue.

 

And I know a few of these are covered in other polls, but I want this to be combined so I can right the paper more quickly and have the latest data, plus a neat poll to link to. I'll post the paper up later.

Edited by BattlePriest

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just had to ask, when you say "do you consider yourself a redneck", are you referring to that nut who posted that thing in the paintball section?

 

bunch of poor as rednecks that want to simulate military battle well it's not plactic and u pansies should join the army if u want realism

 

Anway, this is a really cool poll. Very innovative.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not a redneck (except when I get sunburn from riding the Harley all day), and I'm a small business owner. I did my time for Uncle Sam (USN), and am an upstanding member of the community.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Since the majority of people who voted in this poll are under 18 I think the political affiliation question is kind of moot. If you can't vote, it doesn't matter too much who you want to win.

 

Just a critique of the poll. I think a better question would be, "What are your political leanings:

Right Wing

Left Wing

Moderate

Don't care."

Edited by WeeGee

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest BattlePriest
Since the majority of people who voted in this poll are under 18 I think the political affiliation question is kind of moot. If you can't vote, it doesn't matter too much who you want to win.

 

Just a critique of the poll. I think a better question would be, "What are your political leanings:

Right Wing

Left Wing

Moderate

Don't care."

 

Good point... if 44 agrees, I can change the poll choices to reflect that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest BattlePriest

Ask your mother if she thinks I am insane:

 

I was born in Illinois in 1971 to a Navy man and a southern girl from Kentucky. Some of my mother's family are rednecks and moderates, my father's family are Military types and Republicans.

 

My parent's divorced when I was 10, and both have been remarried several times, but are now finally married to those that they will stay with till death do they part.

 

I grew up as a geek and a punk, never having permanent full time friends due to moving around all over Illinois my whole childhood, but I always made friends easily wherever I went. My father bought me my first bb gun at age 8, a Daisy .177 revolver.

 

The Young Men's Christian Association taught me to shoot my first firearm during Summer camp when I was 8-10 years old. yes that's right, a Christian Religious organization taught me to shoot and respect firearms when I was 8 YEARS OLD!.

 

My father also took me to National Rifle Association Junior Rifleman's training when I was 14, where I earned my pro marksman, marksman, marksman 1st class and sharpshooter 1 bar badges. I also learned firearm safety and proper gun handling.

 

I got average grades in Middle School and High School, even though I was incessantly picked on because I was ALWAYS the new kid, and a gamer geek. (Being different was always enough to invite bullies to pounce) I took martial arts and developed an affinity for bladed weapons, though I never used them against anyone, even though many bullies should have deserved my wrath. I always kept a cool head and never instigated physical conflicts.

 

I went to college, got a degree, and got into the technology field.

 

I have owned Real Firearms, from pistols to rifles. I only have airsoft guns now, for I prefer guns that can't kill people.

 

I am an Artist, a Theologian, and a Philosopher. I am a strong Democrat with leanings towards Socialism.

 

I myself have been married and divorced once. I have remarried again... this time to the most awesome, smart, caring and beautiful woman in the world. (Who is a biomedical engineer who plans to cure diabetes one day)

 

My Mother is a Nurse and my Father is a Methodist Minister.

 

I have worked as an Electronics Technician, a Networking Engineer, a Document Archival tech, a Sales Engineer and now work as a Biomechanics Research tech at a major University.

 

I have had more hardship in my life than most, being a Diabetic who has been in and out of hospitals my whole life, I am from a broken home and was picked on and beat up by school bullies most of my childhood life, my father has survived a heart attack, my mother has a terminal incurable disease and my brother had a heart attack when he was 34....

 

Yes... I love playing airsoft and collecting airsoft guns, and I have NEVER hurt a single person as long as I have lived.

 

Ask your mother... do I sound crazy?

 

Insanity exists whether guns, or any weapons exist or not. Guns do not CAUSE insanity, they only cause trouble when a person who is ALREADY insane get's their hands on them. Of course the way I see it, ANYONE who murders someone is insane.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was born in 1972, as a son of an Army surgeon.

 

Normal childhood. Parents never fought. I got along good with my brother. I was on the geeky side, I read Carl Sagen's Cosmos when I was in 5th grade. My grades were not so good, so my father was disappointed, as many fathers would.

 

I got to college, majored in English/Creative writing, minored in Japanese. Sports were boring to me, I was more interested in science. Typical geek. But I guess I am a control freak, I like refining my own body movements. Martial arts suited me. By college, I was already a black belt in Taekwondo, but I got my rear kicked around by a Japanese kid who did Shotokan Karate from Tokyo. His father owned a dojo, so he started Karate when he was 4. Boy did he kicked my rear. I accepted my defeat, and promptly started to train with him. I was never as fast as he was. We trained 90 minutes of Iaido with real katana in the morning, and and 90 minutes of Karate in the afternoon, 5 days a week, for about 3 years. Monday was always hardest. Iaido was for controlling breathing, our focus was on Karate. We had 10 other kids, but they all left after bloody noses and some stitches. Looking back, I don't know where we had all that energy. I guess we were young.

 

That Japanese friend graduated from college and went to Cornell University for a master's degree. I graduated and went on to a law school. He applied to UN, but field assignments were rare, so he went with CARE, went around Indonesia and China to help locals farming practices. He has his own business in Tokyo now. I became a lawyer, practice federal law.

 

I'm a democrat, but a moderate one. I like Republican Senator John McCain more than many democrats.

 

I also think that there has to be a way to keep guns out of hands of crazy guys. I'm not advocating more gun laws. But I am advocating more education on guns. Have one week training camp set up by local police, for example, (some place already do that, but not required). Teach people how to care for guns. How to use guns. How to screen for dangerous people. We take months to get driving license, because cars gone out of control can kill up to 8 people. One gun can kill 30 people, so why not train the gun owners? Just sell guns without any training or psych evaluation? Even drivers get eye sight testing done, why not ask a few questions before selling guns?

 

At the school level, I think kids should be kept in the same classrooms, one year at a time, like Japanese schools. That way, everybody gets to know everybody else. It's easier to spot kids in trouble. Educate more on social activities, make kids learn to work together, instead of focusing on individual learning. Make them social players. Individualism can wait until college. There still will be bullies and loners, but the gap between them will be lessened, and kids in between can cushion the clashes somewhat.

 

I won't own a real gun. One gun in the hands of one guy gone berserk, can do so much damage. I probably won't go berserk, but I might get depressed, who knows. That's just me. If you have it, good for you. Learn to use it well, and keep it safe.

 

I like airsoft for the same reason why I like martial arts. I can measure myself in targets. I aim, I fire at targets, without killing anyone. I don't do it in anger. I don't hunt. If you hunt over-populated animals, that's fine by me, but I won't do it. I leave it to hunters. I have absolutely no need for firearms, but I like measuring my skills. I did martial art, and there were some kids who thought I was geeky. I didn't mind. Knowing that I was smarter than them, and knowing that I am also stronger than them was enough for me. I felt no need to show my strength. Same with airsoft. I will keep trying to shoot better. But not because I want to get a real gun, nor that I want to kill some animal with my gun, but because I can measure myself with it. Same as all other single man sport. You run, swim, ski, skate faster, or jump higher, throw further or shoot better. Same thing with me. I want to be accurate.

 

**Political Flamepoints Removed**

Edited by BattlePriest

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Date of Birth: 1991

Place: Illinios, around Champaign

 

My father is a chemical engineer and my mother is a teacher, both Catholic and leaning toward Republican. I'm somewhat "nerdy". I enjoy reading and writing, and I don't play conventional sports. I do however swim, and I at least think I have a brilliant mind.

 

I personally am not a confirmed Catholic, though I do agree with many of the teachings. I consider myself independant, since I vote for whomever will do the best the job. I think the two party system needs to disappear.

 

I hunt pheasant and might possibly start hunting turkey and wild boar. I do not own a gun, however my father owns two shotguns, for hunting, and I never go near them. Not because I'm afraid, but because I don't have the training.

 

That's me in a nutshell

 

**Political flamepoints removed**

Edited by BattlePriest

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest BattlePriest

You guys are straying too close to the political discussion topics I said must remain out of this thread.

 

Post your affiliations... but no more opinions or discussions related to politics are allowed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest BattlePriest
According to this poll at age 20, I'm in the minority...that seems odd to me.

 

That's because your at ASF where we don't run the kids out just because they are kids (like many other airsoft forums do)

 

ASF exists to make sure the kids don't go off and do something stupid because no one taught them wrong from right in relation to airsoft.

 

It was long ago determined that the vast majority of ASF members are teenagers. I have done my best to attract adult members here to help keep the younger members on track...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Birth: 1989

 

I have grown up in a conservative (not always Republican, but never Democrat), Protestant Christian family of 6. I was homeschooled from age 3 (when I started learning to read and Mom decided she'd better give me some help) until a few months after my 15th birthday, when I graduated. While being tested for ADD, I was given the big long all-day IQ test, and scored 147. (The results, by the way, were positive, though I have a fairly mild case compared to the average.)

 

I'm now in my third year of community college, and plan to go off to college full-time the year after next- I work at a Chick-fil-A 35+ hours a week, and intend to continue doing so as long as possible. My goal is to make it through my two years of pre-med without having to take out a student loan, though I figure I'll have to in order to make it through pharmacology school.

 

I've been playing airsoft for about a year and a half...I have one gun, which I researched heavily before purchasing and which I have done all the upgrade work on myself. My family has never owned real-steel guns, though my dad grew up in a family of recreational shooters- his dad hunted, but the whole family did target shooting. My family has never owned guns because a) they're expensive, and b) some of my siblings have had serious mental-instability issues at times (sister with OCD, brother with OCD and ADD) and he doesn't want them to have firearms available should they go temporarily nuts again. I have fired guns (with my parents' knowledge and approval, under adult supervision) and a friends house on one occasion, and enjoyed it.

 

Though I probably will not hunt, my moral feelings on the subject divide it into three types:

1. Hunting to control the population of a species, or to eliminate varmint or nonnative species. This is perfectly acceptable, and it is possible to enjoy it responsibly without moral guilt.

2. Hunting for food. While noone in America really needs to hunt for their food supply, eating what you kill is a responsible use of that animal's life under most circumstances. So long as all applicable laws and regulations are obeyed, and you eat what you kill, limited, balanced hunting of species which are neither overpopulated nor nuisances is also morally aceptable.

3. Hunting for sport. This covers such things as African big-game hunting, which I don't generally approve of, despite the fact that the financial motivation to maintain the big game populations for hunters on the big African ranches has been a huge factor in ensuring the survival of popular trophy species. Killing things purely for fun is not acceptable. It also covers killing native animals which are neither overpopulated nor nuisance species, even in ecologically responsible numbers, without eating them or sending them to a processing facility to be sold for meat. Here, the issue is the waste of the carcass after it's dead, not the morality or lack thereof of killing it.

 

I do intend to get my concealed-carry license as soon as I am of age, and to exercise my second-amendment rights as fully as is legal in whatever area I may be living in at the time. While I hope and pray I will never have to kill someone, I would do so with no compunctions whatsoever if I knew that they were a threat to the lives of others if not stopped. (Why do you think all the big shootings happen on schools? Because the criminals know noone else there will have a gun.) At such time as I have children, the guns will be sold, and I won't have them in my house until either the kids are all moved out, or (in the event they remain at home longer than usual) until I am confident that they are responsible, mentally stable adults. I would like to familiarize my children with basic firearms handling and safety early in their teens, but I don't want them to have access to said firearms. Hopefully we'll have a friend who shoots, and he/she can help me out with this. Too many of America's young people are afraid of firearms, instead of recognizing them for what they are: useful, if potentially dangerous, tools, that can cause great destruction in irresponsible or untrained hands.

 

So, would your mom qualify me as normal?

 

-Mac

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

alrighty.... I'll start with the my answers to the poll:

 

1. No, from Chicago, most definatly not a redneck

 

2. 5k-10k.....if im lucky....I work at Burger King for crying out loud

 

3. I'm 17, and loving it, but I would rather be 18, for obvious reasons...

 

4. I'm an American

 

5. I don't hunt. The only reason I could see to hunt is if you eat what you hunt. But why if its in the store?

As for hunting for sport, I think that just doesn't make sense. You're trying to kill something that you're

100x smarter than (well... at least most of us...)

 

 

 

Since we already got a whole bunch of autobiographies, why not one more short one? : )

 

I'm from Chicago. But when I was 8, we moved to Oak Forest (suburb of Chicago, but not exactly crime free). In 8th grade, we moved out to the middle of nowhere (aka Will County). Most of my family still lives in Chicago. I have experienced all 3 types of living (Urban, Suburbs, Rural). I must say, Chicago is the best. I spend a lot of time in the city, and plan to move back after high school.

 

I get a B average, but I know I can do better (I do barely any homework). I ace the standardized tests and such. Ever since about 5th grade, every new teacher says "You're such a smart kid, but why don't you do your homework?". It's not that I'm lazy, I just don't care. I'm not going to college. College is mostly for people who want to have a career in a corporation. I plan on owning that corporation.

 

I wouldn't say I fit into any high school stereotypes.

I'm smart, but not a nerd. I enjoy sports, but not to play for my school (which suck..).

 

I listen to a wide range of music, from Metallica to Frank Sinatra to Kanye West. Pretty much anything but country music (can't stand it...)

 

I'm straight.

Just thought I'd throw that in there...

I have no problem with homosexuals.

 

I am not a Republican. or a Democrat. or a Green Party member.

I'm an American. I believe the government should do what's best for everyone.

 

I will soon enlist in the Marine Corps.

 

 

 

Let's see...I don't think I can come up with anything else...

 

Oh yeah, I drive a Gold '94 Honda Accord, and I love it to death.

Even when it only starts half the time.

Edited by Gateman89

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest

Ok, here we go. (if you don't like boring skip this post)

 

I was born in Michigan (1992), when I was 4 we moved to small town Illinois (aka: sandwich) for which we lived 5 years. then I moved here (suburbs, west side of Indianapolis). then my life begins. I am a "C" average and my parents think it should change to an "A" (it should) since my sister consistently gets a 4.5 GPA (not even possible for me, since I take no honors classes), while my other sister gets "a"'s in art.

well thats my fill of griping, though I don't see how it relates. since it doesn't I might as well sing you a song (composed by my sister to annoy my other sister)

:migrating Asparagus song:

if I was a Tomato; I'd throw myself at you

if I was a cucumber, I'm sure I'd like you to

if I was an Asparagus, I'd just be passing through

 

(any suggestions for continuation are welcome)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Born: 1992 in Maine on a naval base.

 

I have moved around quite a lot (dad in the navy).

I have lived most of my life in the Annapolis/Broadneck area of Maryland so I most definitely am not redneck.

I am the youngest of 5 and my parents are both republicans. I used to be a paper boy and I now am on the marching band at my school. (6th place at ACCs Yeah yeah) (out of 30) I am pretty weird. I can juggle, walk on stilts, make chainmaille, ride a unicycle. Pretty much I am an active nerd. I play soccer and used to run track as well as ride my bike. I also play warhammer and magic.

 

So aside from the chainmaille and such I am pretty normal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Born in 1991 in Texas to a Republican and a moderate republican. I was taught at 5 to use firearms and immediately outshot my dad with rifles (much to his chagrin). I've been a Christian for the better part of my life, and have always been involved in the outdoors (I actually sleep better on ground than in a bed) and have gotten involved in Boy Scouts with Troop 437.

 

Dad is an IT specialist with alot of leadership in his background. Mom does accounting.

 

I have an affinity for firearms and have been learning a special mix of Martial Arts (Tae Kwon Do with Hopkido, Jujitsu, Muo Du Kwan, swords, knifes, Tompha's, bowstaff, nunchucks). I have always loved hunting, I take a yearly trip to the rockies with my family and take down some really nice big Elk and all kinds of other critters.

 

I have adopted an extremist right opinion of government (government is in charge of protection of borders, military, and judicial system, and that's it.) that has led me to become independent.

 

I currently am 16 and earn 20'000-30'000 a year, which is mainly to help with a lot of other activities I do, not just airsoft.

 

I take plenty of flak for being so against the current congress, and many have tried to intimidate me with their "mad skillz". Alot of people think that I'm a nerd for watching such shows as "Stargate" and "Star Wars" and LOTR, but I also shoot alot in practical IPSC (militarized IPSC) so they tend to leave me alone.

 

I enjoy pretty much any rock music, mostly death metal, and can't stand pop music.

 

Going to Texas A&M and then going into Army Special Forces for 8 years.

 

I currently have a girlfriend and I am straiter than an arrow.

 

Oh well, so much for a short biography.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was born in 1956 to an Aerospace Engineer who was raised on a Montana Sheep ranch and a Teacher/Librarian from a reserved New Hampshire family. Both parents are strong Christians and are still married after over 54 years.

 

I was raised in Huntsville, Alabama and even though I can speak "Southern" when I want to I am not a Redneck. I was the invisible child who never got into trouble and was usually quietly reading, drawing, or working on WWII airplane models. I have always liked people and even though I wasn't popular I wasn't friendless either. Just your average, get along with everyone type personality.

 

I played two years of little league baseball and tried out for football for a whole week in junior high. In high school I was in JROTC for three years and was the cadet commander of the unit in my senior year. I also shot on the .22 target rifle team.

 

Got an NROTC (Marine Corps Option) scholarship at Auburn University where I earned a BFA degree in Fine Art (with honors). After a year and a half I had to drop the scholarship in order to keep my degree on schedule. For the last two years of school I COOPed at NASA in their art department painting conseptual designs of future space hardware.

 

A year after graduation I married (in 1980) my one and only wife and settled in Huntsville working as a technical illustrator. In 27 years of marriage we have had many adventures. Spending three years building our house on 5-acres of land; earning a Master's degree in Illustration, sailing to the Bahamas on a 40' sailboat; starting 2 different small businesses; adopting our son when he was 5-months old; surviving the threat of divorce due to working too hard; and a host of other minor hobbies and vacations.

 

I most closely relate to the Republican platform politically. My faith is the main driving force in my life and the moral code I live by is in the Bible.

Edited by Bullfrog

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Since were doing biographies:

 

 

I was born in January of 1992, I am 15.

 

I was publicly schooled until the middle of the 6th grade, which is when my mother pulled me out of school as per my request, and from then on I have been home schooled. I was always at the relative top of my class, and seemed to find myself teaching my teachers the workings of their computers and calculators. Because I am 15, I have no degrees or similar such things.

 

I have awards given to me because of my excellent performance in my Color Guard of the Bellingham Composite Squadron in 2005-present. I have been awarded certificates of appreciation and participation for aiding with the local fire and police departments.

 

I have taken firearms safety classes, of the proper use and handling of a firearm. I have been using firearms in many activities such as hunting, trap shooting, competition shooting, sport shooting and just going to the range for fun. I am currently working with the NRA to get my marksman bars, relatively the same as to what BP was referring to. I have more knowledge of firearms and military than anybody I know my age, and most adults I have ever met. My parents trust me enough to the point where they allow me to buy, and store my own firearms. I also am considered a teacher at my local shooting facility, and often help young kids in teaching them to handle firearms properly.

 

I have earned the rank of Senior Master Sergeant in the Civil Air Patrol Cadet Program. Through this program I have gained a large amount of leadership and communications, and also general life skills. I currently have an ROA (radio operator’s authorization) which allows me the use of official Civil Air Patrol radios and frequencies.

 

I do not dress as other my age, I have very short hair, I always wear woodland BDU trousers everywhere I go, I carry 2 pockets knives, 1 multi-tool, 1 mini mag-lite, 1 wrist-watch and on occasion I carry 1 boot knife; on my person at any time I am out of the house. I have great respect for my elders, if they so deserve that respect, I will not respect someone older than myself if they show no respect for me, or their standing as a role-model for younger peoples.

 

I am a writer and a designer; not for a profession, but for hobby. I chop wood and buck hay for money, and am constantly working on farms. I go fishing often, weather it be in a lake or the ocean. My mom is a school bus driver, and has been for nearly 10 years. I am very anti-social, which is probably why I don't start talking to every person I see at big airsoft games. I am humorous, extremely sarcastic at times, and paranoid; perhaps that's why there a foxhole in my front yard.

 

I would mostly relate to the "side" of Republican; and as for faith, I am an atheist, however do tend to follow along the ten commandments as guidelines; those are some Darn good values. I respect anyone with religion or faith, however not those you believe others are evil because of their faith.

 

Anyway, most may say I am stupid, crazy or what I do is pointless; but would one go so far as to say I am insane? Truthfully?

 

 

Cheers, Graham.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

now its my turn.

 

Iwas born in 1993 in Utah. Yes I know I am kinda young but whatever. I am in the 8th grade with a 4.0GPA. I am not really into politics as long as no crazy person is elected president. I like to hang out with friends and do airsoft alot. Have a good family. I am about 50% redneck. It depends on what side of the family you want to talk about. I am unemployed(8th graders don't usually have a job). My family likes to hunt alot. but we do you use the meat and don't let anything go to waste except for the organs because they have no use. we have gone hunting exotic animals in Africa but we didnt waste the meat. Some places have this organization which takes the meat and gives it to the villages that are starving. so nothing goes to waste.

Please post your report in another thread if possible. I would like to see what you wrote about airsoft and the "rednecks" who do it.

Edited by chandaman

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest azoneman

I'm 15, born November 24, 1991, and in the 9th grade.

 

I went from private school to being home schooled for one year, then to public school in 6th grade. I've played sports all my life, originally soccer and baseball, but I've started wrestling and football now that I'm in high school. I'll usually play OLB or DE, along with wrestling as 145/152 lbs. I've maintained a 4.0 GPA, and currently in the process of registering for the International Baccalaureate program for my junior/senior year.

 

Although I have a job working on the beach, I listed "I'm just a kid" because my income will vary upon how much I work, balancing that with school and other activities.

 

My family is usually conservative, but never liberal. Although I am openly religious myself, I believe that it helps to mantain very good moral values in our society, even if some organized regions can become rather odd.

 

Because I live in Atlanta, I cannot hunt very often, but I'll occasionally go deer or quail hunting with my dad or family. I've collected 2 Civil-War muskets and 1 pre-WW1 Hamilton .22 from my grandfather, who is an avid firearm collector.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...