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Guest TriChrome

Is A G&p Aeg For Me?

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Guest TriChrome

Edit as of 8/27/09

NOTE: Some Information In this article may be out of date.

 

After I was going to answer three different posts asking about G&P M4 variant AEG's in the last hour, and since you can't search for "G&P" on this search engine (search term has to be 4 letters long), I thought I'd write a little post about them to answer all of those questions once and for all.

 

G&P's are only for people experienced with gearbox internals, or people who have the money to have their gun's gearbox fixed frequently. (until you sort out the possible problems)

 

Yes, that's right, I'm screaming at you. Should you get a G&P as your first gun? NO! Should you get a G&P and only be prepared to install one or two parts to make it last for a while? NO!

 

Should you get a G&P if you're very experienced with gearbox internals (or can pay to have somebody do it for you, and have a loaner gun to use while it's getting fixed)? Yes! Should you get a G&P for it's exquisitely beautiful externals when you plan on gutting the internals soon after buying it? YES!

 

 

 

I say these things from my personal experience, the experience of several Airsmiths who are good friend of mine, and from that I've read over three years of visiting about 15 different forums each and every day. I've personally owned about 6 G&P M4's, my brother owns 2, and I've fixed about 5 friends G&P's.

 

 

History of Defects:

 

The 1st generation G&P's had numerous problems. For starters the tappet plate would snap every 2-5K rounds. This was due to a flimsy tappet plate, a metal nozzle which was too tight on the cylinder head, and a large nub on the sector gear. This meant in order to have the tappet plate not snap you needed to replace the gears, nozzle, and tappet plate as soon as you got it. Couple this with a hop-up unit which mis-fed on many people's guns, you needed to replace that as well (along with the bucking).

 

The 2nd generation (still with the proper trademarked bodies) fixed the tappet plate problem for most people. Problems started to creep up with the switch and trigger not aligning properly; this is the biggest problem for me because no matter how good you are at gearbox work myself, and many others, could never get them to work properly without hours upon hours of fine-tuning (I have 2 G&P's with this problem right now, Xhado went through it on his, and on NEASG.org a pro Airsmith for a shop finds this problem frequently as well). At about this time the aftermarket G&P Blue Polycarb pistons (previously thought to be the best piston on the market) started to snap their back ends off left and right. Soon after G&P came out with a White Polycarb piston which seems to be like the original (as in extremely good quality).

 

The 3rd generation (with the fake Marine bulldog trademarks) supposedly fixed these above problems but a large problem still persists: now the axles of the gears can come loose. Some people also still have trouble with the hop-up, although my last 2 have been perfect (on par with CA). Always replace the bucking.

 

 

 

Pro's of G&P AEG's

 

After reading the above list of internal problems you may be asking yourself why anybody would ever consider buying a G&P AEG. The reason is simple: they have beautiful externals. Best quality I've seen of any other brand (TM, CA, ICS, G&G, Hurricane, VFC, etc.). After holding a G&P and a CA, there's no comparison. For starters G&P's finish holds up better, looks better, works better with aftermarket accessories (both Airsoft, and real steel), better real-steel compatibility, higher resale value and better fit and finish.

 

I own 4 M-Series AEG's, and I only buy the highest quality guns. I own 3 G&P M4's and a CA M249. I started with TM, and tried CA and ICS; they simply don't compare. Right now my ideal gun is a G&P M4 (has to be a WGC Custom G&P because those have the correct trademarks, not the fake Marine trademarks like the newer G&P's have; I believe one other HK shop may sell ones like these as well), with the gearbox internals (and barrel/hop-up) completely gutted. I keep the 7mm gearbox because it's very robust and the bearings are excellent, and hope I don't have switch/trigger issues again.

Edited by DM Hackle

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G&P's are only for people experienced with gearbox internals, or people who have the money to have their gun's gearbox fixed frequently.

I've heard they've improved, are you sure you're up to date?

 

 

Should you get a G&P and only be prepared to install one or two parts to make it last for a while? NO!

now the axles of the gears can come loose. Some people also still have trouble with the hop-up, although my last 2 have been perfect (on par with CA). Always replace the bucking.

Doesn't quote two and three contradict each other? Replacing the gears and hop-up would fix the problem and it'd last more than a while.

 

Also you just said, "my last 2 have been perfect (on par with CA)" so doesn't that mean they have improved? not to mention that definitely contradicts the very first quote.

 

edit: did u pin this yourself? :a-jester:

Edited by D0096F

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Guest pilz
I've heard they've improved, are you sure you're up to date?

I never had any problems with ethier of mine. They seem to be getting better with their internals if they didn't already fix the problem. I have'nt had one since last January or so.

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Guest TriChrome
I've heard they've improved, are you sure you're up to date?

Yes.

 

Old Man (largest Airsmith in the state of New Jersey) has had the axle fall out of about 3 or 4 sets of G&P gears now (maybe more); he posts about this every time he encounters one (and I'm talking weeks ago, not months or years).

 

Ciotti (owner of NJAOC forum, oldest in NJ) has also listed this same problem (he's done gearbox work since before 1997). I haven't worked on a G&P in a couple months now so I haven't seen it (plus I'm too broke to buy a new gun).

 

My last 2 G&P gearbox shells (I assume the 7mm ones I buy aftermarket are the same exact ones G&P puts in their newest AEG's) had horrible problems with the switch assembly and the trigger slipping behind it and other weird things like that. These gearbox shells were bought about 4 months ago. I actually gave up on one of them after about 10 hours into it (and switching out every component) and bought a MTHaynes/6MilSpec CNC'd gearbox (which of course works perfectly with the same exact parts which were previously in the G&P shell).

 

 

 

Doesn't that contradict each other? Replacing the gears and hop-up would fix the problem and it'd last more than a while. Also you just said, "my last 2 have been perfect (on par with CA)" so doesn't that mean they have improved? not to mention that definitely contradicts the very first quote.

No. I said my last 2 G&P hop-ups have been fine, but said that many others are still reporting problems. The new batches have bad gears, and some people still have hop-up and switch/trigger problems.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I never had any problems with ethier of mine. They seem to be getting better with their internals if they didn't already fix the problem. I have'nt had one since last January or so.

It is true that some people have G&P's work out of the box fine for thousands, if not tens of thousands of rounds, but many of them break (dare I say even more than CA or ICS M4's).

 

To quote JBallou from NEASG (I think he's on here too) "My long opinion on G&P: I've owned three and worked on maybe 25 or so. As soon as the box has to be opened, I gut it and start fresh with a brand-new replacement. As long as they stay as they came from the factory they work OK, but if they go down I can never get them running right again without more work than they're worth. G&P casts some sort of voodoo at the factory that holds them together with sunshine and a dream."

 

....I believe he's been in Iraq recently and wouldn't have seen the gears loose on the axles which is a recent development.

Edited by TriChrome

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TriChrome speaks the truth, I've been working on G&P's since the day they came out and I've seen multiple instances of all of these problems pop up over the years.

 

I will stress that aside from Systema PTW's, G&P guns are the best out there with a bit of work right up front. Now only do the externals look amazing, they are amazingly strong, and they fit together beautifully with no filing or custom work needed. In the past year, every G&P I've worked on I've put in Systema nozzles, tappets, gears, and hop up units and not one has had any problems. A few of them are guys on my team and they are pushing rates of fire well over 25 RPS right at 400 fps with .25's all day long and we don't use semi auto at all.

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:a-angry: Grr, this makes another choice for my next primary... Helpful, but gives me a harder decision on what M4 I want.

 

Edit: Does the newer G&P M4's (the marine logo one) require frequent inspections and parts to replace like the 2nd generation one?

Edited by Airsoft Kid

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Guest TriChrome
Edit: Does the newer G&P M4's (the marine logo one) require frequent inspections and parts to replace like the 2nd generation one?

I made up the different generations (G&P doesn't call their newest models "gen 3" or anything like that which I'm aware of, I just listed the different series of problems which seemed to plague models which came out at around the same time) ....but those two gearboxes I bought only 3-4 months ago are both giving me switch/trigger issues, but I can't confirm if G&P changed anything in the new gun since I haven't owned or worked on any (the axle problem is gained through 2 Airsmiths in my area who have worked on many recently though).

 

Also, there's nothing which inspecting the gun can really reveal. Most parts can look perfect one day then break the next mag.

Edited by TriChrome

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With the upgrades I listed installed (gears, nozzle, tappet, and hop up unit) the G&P's I've worked on have yet to break and some are going on a year and a half or so with tens if not hundreds of thousands of BB's fired through them. G&P's are unbelievably durable it's just that they seem to be having growing pains with some of the specific pieces in their gearboxes, first the tappet, then nozzle, then hop up, now gears. I'm sure they'll get it straightened out but in the mean time they're still in my eyes the best gun out there, you just need to buy a few parts with them and have them installed by someone that knows what they're doing.

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I own a CA33 and I have gutted and rebuilt its gear-box a couple of times (those Darn CA pistons...) I am in the market for a new AEG and I love the aesthetics of the G&P's and I do not mind regular gearbox maintenance, my only question is would I be better off starting with a TM foundation and building the body around a solid gear box I.e. adding G&P externals or should I just shell out for the G&P and insert systema goodness within?

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If you start with a G&P and swap in a few gearbox parts you'll spend a :pain: ton less money and end up with the same thing, starting with a TM and then swapping everything out is just so dam expensive which I learned thhe hard way over and over again back before G&P's came out.

 

Buying a G&P is scary cheap when you consider that you are getting the best external parts out there (stock, body, and front end), a great gearbox shell, a great switch assembly (no contacts at the selector plate to melt), great hardware (all the little pieces), and some decent internals.

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If you start with a G&P and swap in a few gearbox parts you'll spend a :pain: ton less money and end up with the same thing, starting with a TM and then swapping everything out is just so dam expensive which I learned thhe hard way over and over again back before G&P's came out.

 

Buying a G&P is scary cheap when you consider that you are getting the best external parts out there (stock, body, and front end), a great gearbox shell, a great switch assembly (no contacts at the selector plate to melt), great hardware (all the little pieces), and some decent internals.

 

well, then I am sold. I am looking at the WGC custom M4A1, I hope they still ship with the colt trades.

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Guest RamHammer

What about the G&P special forces m4? Same sob story? Also, does anyone know of an American retailer that carries it?

 

thanks.

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Guest McHitman

ugh, and here I ma trying to decide wether or not to buy the G&P Stubby Killer... obviously, the externals are great, and it'd be a great gun for the CQB place opening soon near me, but the internals... It sounds like they last for a while, but then need some replacement work... and I, as a lawn-mowing teen, can't really see a great reason to spend $270 only to have to replace half the parts in the gearbox a month later... Well, I do have a bunch of old CA stock parts lying around. if anything breaks, should I replace it with those? or maybe I could put just the upgrade gears and nozzle in the G&P... I'm really stuck deciding here.

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ugh, and here I ma trying to decide wether or not to buy the G&P Stubby Killer... obviously, the externals are great, and it'd be a great gun for the CQB place opening soon near me, but the internals... It sounds like they last for a while, but then need some replacement work... and I, as a lawn-mowing teen, can't really see a great reason to spend $270 only to have to replace half the parts in the gearbox a month later... Well, I do have a bunch of old CA stock parts lying around. if anything breaks, should I replace it with those? or maybe I could put just the upgrade gears and nozzle in the G&P... I'm really stuck deciding here.

 

I'll let you know how it is McHitman. I've got one hopefully do in next week.

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Not trying to start a flame war or anything but here are some observations during my recent visit to Hong Kong's airsoft district. I noticed that many of the stores there carried much more G&P products than G&G. I asked one of the shop owners there why that was so and he told me it was due to the having to deal with too many customer issues in the past who purchased G&G AEGs (probably from the older models which everyone speaks of). Also, G&G is a Taiwan manufacturer whereas G&P is a Hong Kong based company (If I recall correctly). I am not sure how much of a factor that plays in their decisions/business to carry products from G&G, but I assume that it is much much easier (and cheaper probably?) to get G&P products. I had arrived with my heart set on a G&G CQB-R but had no luck.

 

Realy? I heard G&Gs were the ones with the good internals! (or maybe I'm being an idiot)

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I've been eyeing G&P's for the last couple months and finally I have saved enough money for one (SR16 URX) and with all this talk about the gear boxes what parts will I need to replace. I know some people that can install gearbox parts so that isn't a problem but I just need to know what I need to get.

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I've been eyeing G&P's for the last couple months and finally I have saved enough money for one (SR16 URX) and with all this talk about the gear boxes what parts will I need to replace. I know some people that can install gearbox parts so that isn't a problem but I just need to know what I need to get.

I have been wanting to know the same thing for a while too. But I have heard the tappet plate needs changing

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I have been wanting to know the same thing for a while too. But I have heard the tappet plate needs changing

 

I've read many posts and reviews all across the net and G&P has made there internals way better then they use to. they no longer are the bad guns that need fixing any more.

 

just wanted to let you all know.

 

but if you plan on buying one of there older guns yes there internals are not that great.

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I've read many posts and reviews all across the net and G&P has made there internals way better then they use to. they no longer are the bad guns that need fixing any more.

 

just wanted to let you all know.

 

but if you plan on buying one of there older guns yes there internals are not that great.

 

 

well I just bought the M4 Ras so we will have to see how it turns out

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I just pre-ordered the G&P Defender off of Redwolf and when I get it ill write a full review.

it supposedly has 8mm bearings instead of the traditional 7mm.

the gearbox might also be built better then its predecessors.

be on the look out for the review next month

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I have to contradict the OP.

 

I've had experience with a lot of the G&P Marine bodies. While many had defective pistons, when the piston was replaced with a standard part from G&P they ran fine and never broke the piston in the same way.

 

I own one of the Marine ones, and the gearbox never failed on it's own. I did have jamming with a Prometheus barrel, and that caused a piston failure, but none of my bearings broke and the gun is still running great with a very high ROF. I have the original tappet plate as well.

 

 

Also, anyone that orders from G&P can order a lot of rifles with any body style they request. Don't judge them by the body because a company can order Marine, Noveske, Bulldog, or SF or any other G&P body on a lot of AEGs.

Edited by CommieHunter

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I just pre-ordered the G&P Defender off of Redwolf and when I get it ill write a full review.

it supposedly has 8mm bearings instead of the traditional 7mm.

the gearbox might also be built better then its predecessors.

be on the look out for the review next month

 

if its any good, I will definitley pick one up!!!

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Hi,

I have been reading the thread, and so far I still see people can not come to the final agrrement, is it good, or not.

I have saved some money, and decided to buy either G&P or CA.

 

I will choose between G&P M4 RAS: http://www.gp-web.com/en/productspop.php?pid=1266

and Classic army M4 RIS: http://www.classicarmy.com/product-popup.jsp?productid=272

 

Both are expensive in my country, so I don't want to miss.

Any advice?

 

Would be a big help, thank you.

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im thinking about getting a G&P M4. and I want to know if this is up to date. ive heard that G&P has fixed most of there problems. can anyone confirm?

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I know I already said I liked G&P. But yes, G&P has fixed most of their problems. The piston thing was a one-time run, and they haven't had that issue since.

 

For the guy looking at the G&P v the CA, I'd go G&P. Nicer externals, nicer internals, in my opinion.

 

If you're looking, Airsoft Outlet NW has the G&P M4 RAS.

Edited by CommieHunter

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I posted the review on the new G&P Defender on the AEG Review Section. Check it out. G&P really have outdone themselfs with this new release

 

Yeah if this remains a sticky, I say it needs to be updated for 2008 specs. I myself have a 2008 QRF and have found it to be nothing of what is described in the first post. These new 2008 G&Ps are not the same as 2005-07, they are steps ahead of that and should not be compared to the older models with all the problems.

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Yeah if this remains a sticky, I say it needs to be updated for 2008 specs. I myself have a 2008 QRF and have found it to be nothing of what is described in the first post. These new 2008 G&Ps are not the same as 2005-07, they are steps ahead of that and should not be compared to the older models with all the problems.

 

Would you be willing to give a run down on the problems you have had (if any) and the improved features? although many have already been covered in the reviews of the defender it would be nice to have them here in this thread.

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Yeah if this remains a sticky, I say it needs to be updated for 2008 specs. I myself have a 2008 QRF and have found it to be nothing of what is described in the first post. These new 2008 G&Ps are not the same as 2005-07, they are steps ahead of that and should not be compared to the older models with all the problems.

Numerous people are still reporting defective pistons, and gears that are even worse than before. Steps ahead? Maybe in some areas but still not in internals (besides the great M120 motor they come with).

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